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Oilers Mid-Season Review: First Rebuild, Now What?

Yesterday our panel touched on the biggest surprises and disappointments of the 2011-12 season to date. Today, the panel attempts to figure all of this out. First and foremost, General Manager Steve Tambellini will have to deal franchise cornerstone Ales Hemsky or sign him to a long-term deal. But what comes after that? The Oilers are playing their way towards a top three pick in June. Defensive depth is still a huge question mark, and the current management team is still unproven.

Like Edmonton fans everywhere, the panel looks to the future.

Our lineup this time includes Pat, from Black Dog Hates Skunks, a guy being driven towards the brink by this team, Jeff Chapman, the man behind Oil On Whyte, Jerconjake, who carves through the numbers at Oil Acumen, dawgbone98, who continues to embarrass panels with his tactics posts, Scott Reynolds, Copper & Blue's intellectual force, Derek Zona, who preaches that we're all just slaves to the math, Ryan Batty, the guy with so much optimism, he still attends every home game, and Lowetide the multi-media star, owner/writer of three Oilers' sites and an Oilers' radio show.

Star-divide

Copper & Blue: Where will Ales Hemsky play his March and April hockey? What will the Oilers get in return?

Lowetide: Los Angeles, for Voynov. No one needs speed up front like Los Angeles. Second choice? Detroit, for a pick.

Pat BDHS: Who knows? Detroit? Pittsburgh? As for return it depends on his play. If he catches fire then he could bring a lot but if he’s playing like he is now, well, its hard to say. All you need is one team to want to pay. Lets say a 1st round pick.

Ryan Batty: I've seen this same thing happen in Edmonton before and I know how it plays out, I'll say there is a one in four chance he's still in Edmonton after the trade deadline. He will be actively shopped though, so unless the Oilers can't get nearly what they're looking for in return he'll be gone. I wouldn't take less than a prospect ready to make the jump to the NHL, the Oilers will probably ask for a late first rounder at most.

Scott Reynolds: I think he'll be playing his hockey in Edmonton and that the Oilers will re-sign him before the deadline. I'll say five years and $5M per year.

Chappy: Ales Hemsky should be playing for the Oilers in March and April. I predict Hemsky will be playing with the Detroit Red Wings presented by Amway after the deadline, and trading this near PPG career player will net the Oilers a second round pick plus a prospect that plays defence. A second round pick and Sebastien Piche, cause he had a great season in the E, y'know? Then we'll hear about what a great deal it was for both Hemsky and the Oilers. If the Red Wings make a run into the playoffs with Ales Hemsky, I will drink enough to paralyze the entire nation of Lichtenstein. How awkward it would be to pull for Hemsky in a Red Wings sweater. I hope it doesn't happen.

dawgbone: I'm torn on this one. If you believe Hemsky is finished as a hockey player, you have to trade him. If you think that the worst is over injury wise, then you have to keep him if the cost is reasonable (cap hit ~ $5mil/season). I think he will be traded, possibly to a team like Boston who knows how important it is to have extra quality forwards. If the Oilers do make a trade it will most likely be draft picks, but I'd rather see a return like a Jordan Caron type of player... one who already has a few development years and some arrows going in the right direction.

Derek Zona: He'll be in Pittsburgh on Jordan Staal's right side. The Oilers will get Philip Samuelsson in return and they'll be yet another real NHL player away from being competitive.

Jake: Hemsky will probably be playing elsewhere in March. His value is lower than it's been at other points in his career, but he could still fetch a good package for the Oilers. Did anyone think Kris Versteeg was worth first and third round picks at the deadline last year? Who would have dreamed of Tomas Kaberle being worth Colborne plus a first and conditional second? Pierre McGuire was adamant that Penner wouldn't be worth a first round pick, let alone Teubert plus a first rounder and a conditional pick. Hemsky's health will be a red flag, but the desperation of GMs adds enormous value to players at deadline time.

Copper & Blue: Assume the Oilers draft one of Nail Yakupov, Mikhail Girgorenko or Filip Forsberg in June. What's next for them? What has to happen this summer to bring the Oilers out of the six-year rebuild? Will it happen?

Jake: The Oilers may need to trade one of their offensive weapons to acquire an NHL-calibre defense, assuming that they can't find help in free agency *cough* Suter *cough cough*. The problem in the long term is that if the Oilers hang on to Hall, Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins and another star forward, they will have a disproportionate amount of money tied up in four forwards that they then cannot spend on the defense. The Oilers need a $5 million defender more than they need another forward worth that much once he gets a new contract. There's enough talent on this team and on the way (especially after another year of high picks in each round) to say that the Oilers will be good eventually, but it will require balanced star power like almost all champions have.

Lowetide: What’s next for them? They’ll sign a free agent defender in the Ian White family and then hope like hell Ryan Whitney can stay upright. I think Theo Peckham is dealt this summer and the club will part with Sam Gagner and bring in a physical forward.

What has to happen this summer? The Oilers need balance. That means finding out if Devan Dubnyk is the starter of the future or the backup of today, it means finding out if there is anyone on the roster aside from Smid-Gilbert who can play NHL defense without screwing up every second sortie. It means unlocking what Eric Belanger can bring, making sure those gifted kids continue to develop and signing Ryan Smyth and Ales Hemsky. It means hiring actual NHL players, especially on defense.

Will it happen? No. The Oilers will offload Hemsky, fail to make decisions on what they have and wander in the wilderness until their Ken Holland arrives. It is written.

Pat BDHS: What’s next? lol Well, I’ve said for quite a while that this summer is going to be key. If Hemsky is gone then they’re a weaker club, again. And Whitney’s issues make him unreliable. So basically its still a weak club. You have two quality D, the three kids up front, Gagner, useful vets in Horcoff, Smyth, Jones and Belanger and then a bunch of kids basically. Question marks everywhere – goal, D and up front.

So what needs to happen? A lot. The biggest problem is on the blueline, same as last summer. They need two top four D with Whitney’s situation. Plus a goaltender. They need a lot. I think Tambo, if he survives, probably moves some kids or prospects for a vet or two and tries to augment with a free agent or two. I don’t think he’s up to it but I think he knows this is it for him. And if he fails then this will be his only GM gig ever.

Ryan Batty: Knowing the Oilers they should expect to be playing pro hockey next fall. They should also be prepared to lose hockey games unless management make the blue line a priority in the offseason. This team already needs help on the blue line and if we don't see the real Ryan Whitney again before the end of the season the Oilers should be looking for two more top four defensemen to take the load off Tom Gilbert and Ladislav Smid. This has to be the number one priority, I can't imagine that management doesn't realize this by now. Will it happen though? Considering they though Cam Barker was the solution last year I'll go with no.

Scott Reynolds: I think it's incorrect to say that the team has been rebuilding for six years. They've certainly been bad for that long, but there was a clear change in mindset about halfway through the 2009-10 season, and there's really no reason to pretend otherwise. As such, they seem pretty much on track with their plan so far, and I'd bet that the expectations for next season are competing for (but not necessarily making) the playoffs. In order to make that jump effectively, the Oilers will need to find a reliable goaltender, significant help on defense, and a coach willing to push for wins. The coach part might be as easy as telling Tom Renney that the priority is winning. Goaltending is fixable if the Oilers are willing to buy out Khabibulin's contract (if no trade is available) or to give up on Dubnyk to bring in someone with a better record of recent success. The defense is the tough part. The club probably needs two top four guys and that's going to be expensive. It will be interesting to see whether they'd rather pay in assets (trade) or in cap space (free agency). I think they're in pretty good position for the former, especially if they're in position to draft another elite forward at this year's draft.

Chappy: Do I have to draft one of those three guys? If the Oilers somehow end top three and landed one of Yakupov, Grigorenko or Forsberg, I'd listen to any offer I could to fetch some defenders for this team. I've been pleading for some for the last couple of years. This team is within sniffing distance of a playoff berth with some experienced NHL players on defence. Next year will be year 3 for the Hall-Eberle-MPS clan, and the majority of those guys are living up to their billing. Can the club get Smyth back on the cheap? Let's see about acquiring some defence. I think it'll be a good thing, don't you? Will it happen? Sure.

dawgbone: If it's Yakupov or Grigorenko they be in the NHL in the fall. Filip Forsberg will be left to play another year in the SEL. The Oilers rebuild plan seems to involve waiting until the roster they have does something amazing. I mean they've tinkered here and there (trading for Smyth, adding Belanger, the Foster sign then trade for Sutton), but they started from ground zero and didn't add enough. If you are going to have Ben Eager in your lineup, make sure that you have 10 or 11 quality forwards to skate with him. If you are going to bring in young defencemen, bring in 1 and surround them with veteran players. They don't need $5+mil per year free agents, they need a handful of August bargains at defence and at F. Will it happen? Doesn't seem like it with this group because it's the same problem they've had for several years now without being addressed. It took the team years to replace Kyle Brodziak. Replacing a guy like that should take minutes, not years.

Derek Zona: I don't know if it comes into play, but Stu MacGregor has ever drafted a Russian. Not only that, I think when all is said and done Alex Galchenyuk will be in the top 3 or 4. So expect the Oilers to draft Forsberg or Galchenyuk. What's next? They'll move Omark or maybe let him go and move Gagner. To our chagrin, they'll re-sign Cam Barker, a move which will be met with great accolades by the local press, and add a big physical defenseman like Bryan Allen, a move which will be met with great accolades by the local press and tack on a depth forward like Paul Gaustad, a move which will be met with great accolades by the local press. They'll rely on Ryan Whitney's injured legs, they'll rely on Nikolai Khabibulin to play at a level he's not seen since he was in his 20s, they'll rely on a young defenseman to play way above his head, they'll rely on Anton Lander and Galchenyuk to play minutes they can't handle and they'll play exciting last-place hockey again.

Copper & Blue: Is anyone's job on the line right now? If the Oilers finish in the bottom three, will anyone be asked to leave the bus?

Ryan Batty: No and no. Another finish in a lottery position should be seen by everyone as unacceptable and if it was up to me both Renney and Tambellini would be shown the door. I think there is still enough support for the process (whatever the process is) that the injuries will be sufficient to explain away another terrible season and let everyone keep their jobs.

Scott Reynolds: I don't think anyone in management has a job on the line if the team finishes in the bottom three. I think the mandate for this season was modest improvement over last season, and would guess that if the team wins at least thirty games, earns at least seventy points, and doesn't finish in last place, that will be good enough whether they finish 29th or 23rd.

Chappy: I think I said something similar last year, but Renney and Tamby aren't going anywhere if the current ship keeps sailing. If the club finishes anywhere but last (say, 27th?) it will be looked at with a little disappointment, but the spin will be "hey, we didn't finish last, that's an improvement". Renney could dress Peckham, Chorney, Teubert, two otters and pencil shavings and he'd still be here next year. At this point, if there was an attempt to attain a D man or two, I could almost excuse the ship from sailing. They signed Barker. While it's unfortunate he's injured, his contribution to the lineup wasn't quite what we hoped for. It's not like he didn't come as advertised.

dawgbone: It should be, but it isn't. If the Oilers don't finish with at least 75 points, the season has to be written off as a disappointment especially when you factor in their hot start and the natural expectations that come with being a year older and wiser. Unfortunately, every hole that could be exposed has been (poor forward depth, poor defense) and that falls on the architect of the team. Tom Renny has been a bit of a lame duck but has also started making questionable lineup and matchup decisions in recent weeks. The whole coaching staff was overhauled, the whole roster was overhauled and the whole scouting staff was overhauled. The next group has to be management, though I doubt we'll see that this summer.

Derek Zona: The Edmonton Oilers will not fire anyone on the management team until they post a losing season in their new arena.

Jake: Before the season I would have said no, but some of the coaching from Tom Renney has been questionable. The Oilers have lost some games by being out-coached this year. It's unlikely that Renney will actually lose his job, but there will be plenty of unhappy fans unless his line matching improves. When fans were fed up with MacTavish it felt more arbitrary, but Renney has made some mistakes that can be (and have been) pinpointed.

Lowetide: I think the template for Daryl Katz development as an owner is contained in the book Hockeytown. Mike Illitch signed Jim Devallano as GM in 1982 and then bumped him upstairs in 1990. That’s 8 seasons. I think Steve Tambellini has at least another two years in his position.

As for Tom Renney, it’s pretty easy to argue that he doesn’t have the horses. Edmonton has turned over the coaching a lot in the last few years, and I suspect they will not flush Renney at this time. A change in the asst coaching positions is possible, but I think it’ll be status quo for the summer. I am not convinced Renney is the coach for this team, but you need to give a man the chance to stand and deliver. That may be this coming season, I don’t think there’s enough evidence to flush him this summer.

The one thing that hovers over all of this is Kevin Lowe. Should he decide that the day to day activity of the GM job appeals to him again, that could occur any day now. A quick media conference announcing Tambellini will continue his fine work with the draft, OKC and be an advisor on trades and KLowe is back behind the rig again.

Pat BDHS: I would say Renney is going to get it. I don’t think he’s been horrible and Lord knows he has little to work with on the blue line but someone has to take the fall. Now there is a part of me that thinks Tambellini may get cut loose as well but that may be wishful thinking.

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First of all, Great Idea for a post!

My Take:

Where will Ales Hemsky play his March and April hockey? What will the Oilers get in return?

I think it is fairly safe to say that the lack (apparent lack, that is) of a contract offer means the Oil are entertaining offers at the deadline. The return will be similar to the Versteeg deal. If they get that kind of offer, or a blue chip prospect instead of a #1, they will take it. I would prefer that he is re-signed though.

Assume the Oilers draft one of Nail Yakupov, Mikhail Girgorenko or Filip Forsberg in June. What’s next for them? What has to happen this summer to bring the Oilers out of the six-year rebuild? Will it happen?

It’s not a 6 year rebuild, and a snipe like that damages the cred of honest blogging to a certain degree. It should have been a 6 year rebuild and by now we would be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, but it wasn’t.

If Tambo’s interview with Eric Francis, referenced long ago on these pages, is to be believed then the process certainly doesn’t end now. How many actual NHLers did Tambo identify when he took over the team? I can’t remember, but I don’t think it was more than 3. Others like LT have said the same—we are short on actual NHLers. And you can’t deal non NHLers for non-NHLers. The reason why teams like Philly and Boston have been able to make the quick moves they have is because they have been dealing from a larger pool of talent (there are a couple of other things in there, like more winning and more desireable locations, but the pool of talent is the biggest factor and impacts these other secondary ones as well) than teams like us.

The accumulation of assets needs to continue, first and foremost, till there is a “critical mass” assembled and a position of strength there that we can deal from.

Meanwhile there’s still work to be done—identifying players from outside the standard streams of supply. Planning the goaltending accession the summer after. Working to bring balance to the roster throughout the whole process. NHL teams turn like oil tankers: they need time and space to make a 180. So there’s no reason to NOT be looking to add to this team. Actual NHL players can be found outside the draft, and obviously there is some concern by Managment to ensure they bring in the right kind of character… but they have done this in the past with guys like Belanger, so there’s no reason to believe they’ll just stop now.

Someone above advised the Oilers might buy out Khabby, but of course that’s impossible.

Is anyone’s job on the line right now? If the Oilers finish in the bottom three, will anyone be asked to leave the bus?

This can’t be that serious of a question. No one’s job is on the line. The team is trending much as expected. There’s improvement from year to year. I can’t see why anyone would be fired.

Renney hasn’t been out-coached as he is operating with a different mandate… one of development, not wins. He’s turned the special teams around, got the goal differential down and all while hiding the kids less and less. To expect these kids to win out against men, men who are bigger, stronger, and more experienced, is foolish. However they need the minutes against these men and they’re getting them. I work with an ex-NHL defenseman and we were discussing this very topic this morning and (thankfully) our opinions agree.

Nor is there any point to being mediocre right now, or giving up assets to be mediocre.

In fact, I would like to offer my congratulations to the coaching staff, all things considered.

by .spOILer. on Jan 9, 2012 5:19 PM MST reply actions  

It’s not a 6 year rebuild, and a snipe like that damages the cred of honest blogging to a certain degree

I completely agree with this. This is the 5th year of the rebuild, not the sixth.

Pretty pathetic snipe, if you ask me.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Jan 9, 2012 6:21 PM MST up reply actions  

We can discuss this if you like, but it seems quite clear that management changed direction substantially about two years ago today. The article you’ve cited is actually a pretty good illustration of this. Even though the word “rebuild” is in the title of that article, Lowe never uses it, and the plan he describes in the body of that text is very different from what is generally thought of as “rebuilding” as were his actions that summer.

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on Jan 9, 2012 6:49 PM MST up reply actions  

I’m intrigued to hear your explanation about the 2007-08 team as not being part of a rebuild. The Oilers played four rookies and four second-year players full time. They rushed their 18-year-old top-6 draft pick into the NHL. They had 231 games played by players 21 and younger, 326 games played by players 22 and younger, and 482 games played by players 23 and younger.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Jan 9, 2012 7:26 PM MST up reply actions  

I’m intrigued to hear your explanation about the 2007-08 team as not being part of a rebuild

Mis-management.

by DarrenV on Jan 9, 2012 7:45 PM MST up reply actions  

And they did it all without their first-round pick! A team that’s consciously at the beginning of a rebuild doesn’t generally go out and hand over their first rounder for Dustin Penner (or their next four first rounders for Thomas Vanek), not to mention $5M and change over 5 years to Sheldon Souray. If I recall, Lowe made sure to distinguish between “retooling” (his plan) and “rebuilding” (not his plan). If anything, he was consciously rejecting a rebuild at that time. Now, that may have been a bad idea, but it’s clearly a different mindset than what we’ve seen over the last two years.

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on Jan 9, 2012 11:49 PM MST up reply actions  

I’m a little disappointed that you’re hinging your argument on Kevin Lowe’s semantics. It’s like arguing Nikolai Khabibulin is the MVP because management says so.

Regardless of what the said, what they did is what counts. That team had more 1st and 2nd year players on it than the 2011-12 team and the most 1st and 2nd year players since the lockout. That team had the original kid line. They rushed the Pronger return (Smid) to the NHL and the 1st round (highest pick in a decade!) pick to the NHL.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Jan 10, 2012 5:29 AM MST up reply actions  

Though I do think what the management team articulates as the plan is very relevant, it’s not just about what they said. As I wrote above, it’s also about what they did. The points you’ve made (playing a lot rookies and sophomores), when taken in concert with the points I’ve made (Souray contract; Vanek contract = potential loss of four 1sts; Penner contract = actual loss of 1st) demonstrate that what the Oilers were doing at that time wasn’t likely to work. And it didn’t! But it’s quite clear that the plan they’ve implemented over the last two years is quite different from what they’ve done previously (losing while trying to win).

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on Jan 10, 2012 8:25 AM MST up reply actions  

Note that the Chicago rebuild included major contracts for free agents. Is that not a rebuild either?

Just because the first attempt at a rebuild wasn’t called such by the team and failed, doesn’t mean it didn’t exist. It’s fairly obvious that Smyth’s trade for futures, combined with the approach that year

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Jan 10, 2012 10:10 AM MST up reply actions  

I actually don’t think that the Blackhawks used a classic rebuilding strategy. Their summer of 2005 is very comparable to Lowe’s 2007, actually. They made a bunch of plays in an effort to win now and they failed badly. But that’s not a plan to rebuild. That’s a plan that’s failing. The Oilers over the last two years have (mostly) planned to fail. I think there’s a big difference between the two.

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on Jan 10, 2012 11:17 AM MST up reply actions  

So what Philly did wasn’t rebuilding? Florida?

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Jan 10, 2012 3:12 PM MST up reply actions  

A plan similar to Edmonton’s? I don’t think so. Philly was a more successful version of “retooling” (twice) and with Florida you’ll need to be more specific. I’m sure there was a conscious rebuilding phase in there somewhere, but they’ve been wandering and awful for a while now.

Clubs in the recent past that have tried to rebuild in a manner that I think is similar to the Oilers (starting winter 2010) would include the Islanders (starting summer 2007), the Blues (starting summer 2005), and the Penguins (starting summer 2001).

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on Jan 10, 2012 4:19 PM MST up reply actions  

Ah. Well, here’s the problem. Your definition of rebuild is wr…too restrictive. You restrict the definition to a specific chain of events – finish last repeatedly, get high draft picks.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Jan 10, 2012 5:06 PM MST up reply actions  

I see finishing low in consecutive seasons to accumulate elite talent as a distinct strategy. It’s the strategy the Oilers are using now, and it’s different from what they’ve done in the past. It seems like the term “rebuilding” just isn’t that helpful. You think I’m too restrictive, I think you’re too broad (by your definition, it seems like most teams are in the process of rebuilding).

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on Jan 10, 2012 6:13 PM MST up reply actions  

It wasn’t their strategy. It was an accident and caused by the failure of the the initial rebuild.

Most teams aren’t rebuilding. Wasn’t it you that did the thing on roster turnover?

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Jan 10, 2012 6:22 PM MST up reply actions  

Agreed that it was not the intent in the summer of 2009. They tried to build a winner that summer and clearly failed. In the winter of 2010, management laid out a new plan based on their new circumstances (i.e. being in last place by accident), and the owner decided to give them another shot. That’s not what I would have done, but it seems pretty clear to me that winter 2010 saw a pretty major shift in the mindset of the people running the club.

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on Jan 10, 2012 10:01 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah, we’re coming from two different angles here and aren’t going to agree about the nomenclature.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Jan 10, 2012 11:11 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree with you Scott. re-tooling happens when you beleive filling 3 or 4 key rolls keeps you a contender or quickly will make you one (as delusional as the notion was) whereas re-building is about tearing it all down and knowing you are going to suck. I do not beleive for a moment Lowe thought they were going to suck. He thought he was a forward (Nylander/Vanek/Penner) and a defender (Souray) away from another Peca/Pronger fueled season.

I don’t beleive it was the Oilers plan to have Cogliano or Gagner make the team that year, but the rest of the talent was so weak the 2 kids played there way on to the roster. I highly, highly doubt if you had asked Lowe in August of that summer about the odds of those kids making the roster his answer would have been “unlikely”.

by gcw_rocks on Jan 10, 2012 8:07 AM MST up reply actions  

As the person who suggested the possibility of buying out Khabibulin’s contract, I’m interested to hear why you think that’s impossible. Or am I misunderstanding you by taking that literally?

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on Jan 9, 2012 6:50 PM MST up reply actions  

Scott...

It’s the CBA that makes me think it isn’t possible… The relevant clause under the CBA is hardly clear but it seems to state that no matter what, an over-35 contract is going to count against the cap. It infers that even if a player was placed on unconditional waivers and picked up by another team, he would still count.

50.2 (iv) All Player Salary and Bonuses earned in a League Year by a Player who is in the second or later year of a multi-year SPC which was signed when the Player was age 35 or older (as of June 30 of the League Year in which the SPC is to be effective), regardless of whether, or where, the Player is playing, except to the extent the Player is playing under his SPC in the minor leagues, in which case only the Player Salary and Bonuses in excess of $100,000 shall count towards the calculation of Actual Club Salary; plus

So it seems to me we would save some money on an annual basis, lose some on an aggregate basis, and have no cap savings to show for it.

Now of course there is the Ordinary Buyout Clause also, but the CBA does not stipulate which is primary in this case, nor has the situation been tested (that I’m aware of, although the League Office would advise teams directly if they had a question). That bit in parantheses leads me to wonder that it would’ve already happened if it could.

Now if I was a lawyer arguing against the over-35 clause being primary, I would state that a Bought-out Player did not earn a regular salary in that year (but then again neither does a retired player and yet we know the clause applies to them).

by .spOILer. on Jan 10, 2012 5:08 PM MST up reply actions  

You are correct that the cap hit would not change, but that doesn’t make it impossible. The move would save the team money, free up a roster spot, and free up playing time for goaltenders that may be able to help the team when it’s actually good. I don’t see how the club will “lose money on an aggregate basis” by using a buy-out. They pay two thirds of the salary and thus save $1.25M.

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on Jan 10, 2012 6:16 PM MST up reply actions  

It’s not a 6 year rebuild, and a snipe like that damages the cred of honest blogging to a certain degree

You’re right. It took them 4 years to realize that they really sucked and had no option to rebuild.

Wow, that actually sounds worse.

by DarrenV on Jan 9, 2012 7:44 PM MST up reply actions  

no option *but to rebuild.

by DarrenV on Jan 9, 2012 7:45 PM MST up reply actions  

Renney hasn’t been out-coached as he is operating with a different mandate… one of development, not wins.

I always though development was the goal in the minor leagues of any sport, and once they made it to the major league club it was time for players to help the team actually win.

Random nonsense at @Baroque97

"It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time." --Sir Winston Churchill (1874 – 1965)

by Baroque on Jan 10, 2012 12:37 AM MST up reply actions  

Additionally, winning is a skill. How is losing better for a player’s development over winning? Yes, he needs to give the kids a decent amount of ice time, but within that contraint it should be all about winning.

by gcw_rocks on Jan 10, 2012 8:09 AM MST up reply actions  

This is an excellent point. Remember, that the primary argument for not leaving Hall or Hopkins in Juniors was to “avoid poisoning the well”.

How is letting a kid destroy juniors worse than making a kid finish dead last or near-dead repeatedly?

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Jan 10, 2012 10:11 AM MST up reply actions  

No one’s job is on the line. The team is trending much as expected. There’s improvement from year to year. I can’t see why anyone would be fired.

After 41 games:
2011/12 – 35 points
2010/11 – 33 points
2009/10 – 36 points

I won’t deny that the team has progressed in some areas but at some point the coaches and management needs to be judged on results.

Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and a frequenter of the time waster that is Twitter.

by ryanbatty on Jan 10, 2012 8:49 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah… to me, Tambellini should have been fired with Quinn after the 2009-10 season, but when he wasn’t, I don’t see how you can fire him for 2010-11 since that season went pretty much according to plan. This season, I’m convinced that the team is better, even if that improvement isn’t turning into many standings points. And since the Oilers were never likely to make the playoffs, “real improvement that should show up in the standings, but doesn’t actually manifest itself this season” is actually a pretty good result because it allows them to draft another (fingers crossed) impact player.

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by Scott Reynolds on Jan 10, 2012 9:51 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah… to me, Tambellini should have been fired with Quinn after the 2009-10 season,

Exactly. he spent to the cap and had a veteran coach and had no idea what he was doing. That’s a firing.

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by Derek Zona on Jan 10, 2012 10:10 AM MST up reply actions  

You’re right that the Oilers being improved without improving is a bit of a silver lining. That the only good thing we can say about Tambellini over the last three seasons is that he did a good job last season when he was supposed to lose isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of his skills as a GM. The evidence from 09/10 and the blue line he built this season should give everyone serious doubts about his ability to build an NHL team. I don’t think he’ll be fired but I don’t think it would be an unreasonable move if he was as the comment above had indicated.

Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and a frequenter of the time waster that is Twitter.

by ryanbatty on Jan 10, 2012 10:11 AM MST up reply actions  

Rebuild or not, call it what you will. This team is still going to suck for at least 5 years when some of our recently drafted D-men turn into NHL players. Sure, management could sign or trade for NHL D-man, but does their track record to date indicate that as a possibility?

Nope.

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by OilLeak on Jan 9, 2012 8:09 PM MST reply actions  

Smyth-RNH-Eberle
Hall-Gagner-
Horcoff

by Passive Voice on Jan 9, 2012 10:50 PM MST reply actions  

hah, shit. i was trying to figure out what the oilers have next year and i hit “post” somehow.

by Passive Voice on Jan 9, 2012 10:54 PM MST up reply actions  

My answers

Hemsky:
The Oilers should bundle him with Peckham and trade them to Pittsburgh for Despres, but they will take a Versteeg/Penner type deal instead. if its not Pittsburgh, it will be interesting to see if a deal with LA for Voynov does happen.

Assume the Oilers draft one of Nail Yakupov, Mikhail Girgorenko or Filip Forsberg in June:
I cannot see that happening unless the Oilers have dealt both Hemsky and Gagner by that time and I assume one of them will still be around. If the Oilers find themselves in the top 3, they will deal down to draft a defenceman.

Management:
I think there is a legit chance that a bottom 3 finish could cost Tambo. It is so painfully obvious he blew it with the blue line that I think any smart businessman would consider what alternatives are available. I would put the odds at no higher than 40-60 he goes, and how he performs at the trade deadline probably has a big impact, but its not like he did everything he could have and shit happened. He played long shots and that warrants review.

by gcw_rocks on Jan 10, 2012 8:22 AM MST reply actions  

If the Oilers find themselves in the top 3, they will deal down to draft a defenceman.

When the Oilers find themselves in the top 3 I really hope you’re right.

Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and a frequenter of the time waster that is Twitter.

by ryanbatty on Jan 10, 2012 8:44 AM MST up reply actions  

I don’t.

That really screws up their timeline. I’d rather them take that top 3 and trade for a 25 year old defenceman coming into his prime.

In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!

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by dawgbone98 on Jan 10, 2012 8:55 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

Well that would obviously be the dream but I’ll consider trading down a victory all the same.

Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and a frequenter of the time waster that is Twitter.

by ryanbatty on Jan 10, 2012 8:58 AM MST up reply actions  

Trading down is not the ideal plan. Take the BPA. If it’s a forward again, so be it. Something like an additional 3rd round pick, is that really worth it? I’d only do it if a team knocked your socks off. You don’t do it just to draft for need.

by Jayamania on Jan 10, 2012 10:37 AM MST up reply actions  

If your GM hasn’t got the balls to trade for what you need, you had better draft it.

by gcw_rocks on Jan 10, 2012 11:28 AM MST up reply actions  

I think everyone on this site would agree trading down to get another third round pick would be stupid. But if the Oilers could fill a need by drafting a defenseman in a lottery position and at the same time acquire a prospect tracking to be an impact player then they should make the move. Nobody gets rich playing it safe all the time.

Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and a frequenter of the time waster that is Twitter.

by ryanbatty on Jan 10, 2012 11:47 AM MST up reply actions   1 recs

That depends on the blueliner they draft. If they get Ryan Murray I would expect he would make the team year 1 or year 2.

by gcw_rocks on Jan 10, 2012 11:27 AM MST up reply actions  

as a Wings fan

I would love to do a Ericsson for Hemsky swap, but more realistically if a deal did happen it would be Kindl for Hemsky

by DeathtotheHawks on Jan 11, 2012 2:13 PM MST reply actions  

Whos SHOULD get fired? & what to do in April

well, i think that Renney should get the axe, and then let’s bring Mactavish back, he should us that he could win more games with a whole lot less than what the Oil have now. Tambo should also see the door, I don’t know who’d replace him at this time, but it wouldn’t be Lowe, who I’d also show the door, but that won’t happen because of his friendship with Katz…
Now for April, we can see that Khabbi is good, but too old to grow with this team, & Devon can’t do it, so let’s get a tender as it starts from the crease out. Washington has a great young guy named Holtby, he’d be first on my list to grow with the kids, plus he’s shown he can do the jon at this level. Maybe Boston lets Rask go, but i doubt it. Then there’s Harding or Vancouver’s back-up, since Luo is signed LONG term, he’ll never get a real shot…
then they’ve got to job on the defence, offer Weber the world, he’ll make the entire d core better, then they can go after a free agent or two, that would leave the d with; Gilbert, Smid, Whitney (if he can ever get healthy), Weber, Petry, Teubert…if you ask me, that’s a good d-core to work with,
Our forwords are good, just add a piece here or there and we’ll be fine, maybe a 2nd liner, or 3rd, then we’ll be set to be a force in the west…
But, it all starts in goal, and we need a young guy to grow with Hall, Eberle, RNH, Gagner, and this coming years top pick, along with vets who should be around next year, Smyth, Horc, Jones, Belanger, Lander & whom ever else…
trade Hemsky, buyout Khabbi, let Barker go, maybe keep Suton as a physical force, and maybe sign a top RFA stud to an offer sheet and see if it’s matched, but no Penner’s….
These are just my thoughts, I hope you can see where I come from, maybe you agree with some, maybe not, but I beleive something needs to be done, and now, not in 2 or 3 years

by rdubb30 on Jan 12, 2012 8:35 AM MST reply actions  

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Lost 3

Clear Victory Standings

Western Conference

  1. Detroit Red Wings (27-11, .711)
  2. St. Louis Blues (24-10, .706)
  3. Vancouver Canucks (22-10, .688)
  4. Los Angeles Kings (18-11, .621)
  5. San Jose Sharks (18-13, .581)
  6. Phoenix Coyotes (20-15, .571)
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Eastern Conference

  1. Pittsburgh Penguins (31-13, .711)
  2. Boston Bruins (27-11, .711)
  3. New York Rangers (25-16, .610)
  4. Philadelphia Flyers (21-17, .553)
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  9. Winnipeg Jets (15-19, .441)
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  11. Carolina Hurricanes (13-17, .433)
  12. Florida Panthers (14-19, .424)
  13. Toronto Maple Leafs (17-24, .415)
  14. New York Islanders (8-23, .258)
  15. Tampa Bay Lightning (10-30, .250)

Division Standings

  1. Central (79-58, .577)
  2. Atlantic (68-50, .576)
  3. Pacific (62-54, .534)
  4. Northeast (69-65, .515)
  5. Northwest (49-69, .415)
  6. Southeast (51-81, .386)


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