I Don't Hate Your Favorite Prospect, Really
One of the most gratifying aspects of writing a column, or writing for a site like The Copper & Blue is the regular feedback I receive from my readers. We get hundreds of comments and dozens of e-mails and Tweets each week. It's all always welcome, even when it's a critique. One bit of feedback that continually befuddles me, however, is that notion that I hate certain prospects or that I want certain prospects to fail based solely on my desire to draft Adam Larsson or my rankings in the Top 25 Under 25.
It's one thing when Ben jokes that I hate Jordan Eberle; our relationship is based solely on good-natured ribbing, and without it I'd feel unloved. It's quite another when e-mailers accuse me of hating Jordan Eberle, or call me "sick" because I want "Nugent-Hopkins to fail so badly". Some commenters here have even accused me of "irrational hate" of certain prospects.
To me, hate is a bizarre emotion to bring to a discussion about hockey prospects. It's extremely rare that any writer would want a prospect to fail, and the same rare odds exist for a writer covering NHL teams, unless of course that writer had a personal vendetta against a player based on some silly locker room slight or other personal affront. Those writers seem to have a certain dementia that prevents them from writing about hockey in any sane or balanced manner. But the rest of the journalistic community -- those who freely discuss prospects and young NHL players without malice -- doesn't have a worldview based on hate or the hatred of a certain player, so covering prospects in that manner is mostly foreign to them, to us.
Before we engage in a deeper discussion, I will admit that I've hated, genuinely hated with malice in my heart, two players in the thirty-plus years I've been observing the sport: Derian Hatcher and Dale Hunter. Hatcher and Hunter played a game best described as a number of dirty plays concealed by a couple of minutes of legitimate play. Hunter was Matt Cooke in his day, only his play was defended as a necessary part of the NHL game, and he was defended as a good Canadian boy. Hatcher was a giant elbow and knee looking for a person to injure on every shift. He was a despicable player. Had he played in a league that actually cared about the health of its players, he would have been suspended as often as he played.
Back to the discussion about me hating your favorite prospect. Even on the worst of teams, there is always optimism around prospects. Until they hit a certain age (except for goalies), they've got a chance to improve, a chance to prove themselves, a chance to make the NHL, and a chance to make a difference. Though we know that only a small percentage of players beyond the first round will become solid NHL players, each fan base believes their prospects are going to be the late-round impact players to make up that small percentage. Of course this cannot be the case, but the future is always bright and confidence is always high when it comes to prospects, and that confidence only wanes when those prospects top out in the minor leagues or leave the organization. When I surveyed my fellow SB Nation hockey writers for this post, I was surprised at how many of them wanted to hang on to their late round picks because "you never know, you could get a star in those later rounds." Their starry-eyed fuzzy focus on the future and optimistic nature came through, though the poll respondents and commenters were more pragmatic. It's the pragmatism that my critics don't like.
When I try to project prospects, I do so with the mindset that most of them aren't going to become solid NHL players, and try to find the special players who might make it. I utilize comps, NHLE, draft peers, and a little saw him good to build my lists and my view of players and I do so with the caveat that I might be way off. But sometimes, I'm dead on, even in the face of long odds. When I argued that the Oilers should return Taylor Hall to Windsor last year and not burn a year of his ELC on a last-place team, I was labeled a hater. This was months after I projected him to score .633 points per game in his rookie season, a projection that was just .013 points per game off of his actual numbers. That projection was a difficult one to make, ask the experts skewered by David Staples. Hater or not, I was pragmatic in my view of Hall's numbers, but as David said in the article "optimism sells".
Though I've been out in front of even the most optimistic fans on a couple of players, namely a lanky defenseman from Michigan State, and a chiseled forward from Kuopio, I've not been optimistic enough, or as one e-mailer told me, I'm not "optimistic about the right players". So even though I rank your favorite prospect lower than you do, I don't hold a grudge against him. Even though I project your favorite prospect for less of a career than you do, I don't hate him.
What I want to know is why do you hate my favorite prospects so much?
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Good reference to Pronman, Derek!
The people who truly believe that any writer could “hate” any prospect don’t really understand what it’s like to write about them. You really need to divest yourself emotionally to be able to competently write about them (or the team that drafted them).
That said, we all have our preferences, and that’s understandable. I for one have been an outspoken critic of your views on RNH/Couturier, but only because it feels you are A LOT more forgiving for the faults of Larsson and Couturier than those of RNH. (While conversely I am the opposite, but whats the universe without some balance?)
But I digress, you should relish those emails Derek. Your views and opinions are controversial (as well as engaging) and that draws page views. If you weren’t those things, CoppernBlue wouldnt be nearly as good as it is, and you deserve a lot of credit for that.
I don’t mind the mail, it’s just confusing. People who cavalierly assign “hate” in that instance confuse me.
I received an email from the mother of one of the prospects I wrote about this year, in it she said:
“Thank you for the very even handed post about __________. He knows about his shortcomings and works hard every single day to over come them.”
If only fans were as level-headed as hockey parents…
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard a comment like that before.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
by dawgbone98 on Aug 26, 2011 6:56 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
This one?
If only fans were as level-headed as hockey parents…
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
I will admit that I’ve hated, genuinely hated with malice in my heart, two players in the thirty-plus years I’ve been observing the sport: Derian Hatcher and Dale Hunter.
So that’s why you hate Sam Gagner!
Some commenters here have even accused me of “irrational hate” of certain prospects.
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on Aug 25, 2011 10:13 AM MDT reply actions
I don’t even hate Cogliano, Ben does. I hate the guys who forced him to be an unproductive centre instead of a productive wing.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Yeah, hate is probably a bad word to use, especially since I didn’t (and don’t) think that you hate him as a person. Probably should have gone with “irrational perspective on” instead of “irrational hate of” there :)
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on Aug 25, 2011 6:24 PM MDT up reply actions
Stinky centre is stinky is not irrational.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
by Derek Zona on Aug 25, 2011 7:07 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Calling him a bad NHL player is one thing; but, as you know, that’s not what I was calling irrational. The irrational part was his relative standing.
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on Aug 25, 2011 8:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Good post, Derek.
I’m curious: what was it about Petry and Harsky that made you think more highly of them than most?
Was it your usual stat analyses?
Or did you also see them play and see something?
P.S. Full admission: When I see a prospect, and I see them good or bad, it has a big influence on me. I try to balance out with stat analysis. NHLe, al that good stuff, but it’s difficult to let go of that impression, I find. For example, I saw Couturier not so good, saw Seguin not so good, and that almost certainly was part of the reason I favoured RNH and Hall over them. I loved what little I saw of both their games (though I also really liked Larsson’s game.).
by David Staples @ The Cult of Hockey on Aug 25, 2011 11:53 AM MDT reply actions
If Harsky was from Nova Scotia, Zona wouldn’t have bothered to learn how to spell his name ;)
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
That’s part of it, of course, but mainly it was looking at the stats while doing NHLE and noticing a ton of goals from a kid no one was talking about. After that, my obsession took on a life of it’s own.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
It seems that the Oilblobosphere is obsessed with picks and prospects, most of whom will never amount to anything. So much so that it sometimes makes me want to puke in my mouth. I get it that the average reader is pretty young and can relate more to guys their age, but it’s really getting out of hand.
Honestly. My eyes glaze over at the sight of yet another riveting article about the potential 8th round pick of 2014 who’s ripping up the east-central Wetaskiwin house league division. And yeah, it really seems that way sometimes.
I don’t think it’s because so many of the commenters and writers are young, I think it’s because it’s just way too depressing to talk about the current Oilers.
I’d mostly agree with that, but it’s worth pointing out that Edmonton is prospect-obsessed more than nearly any other fanbase. It’s been that way since the dynasty days. Every year, every new kid is going to kick someone off of the roster and the guy in Juniors or the AHL just needs a chance.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Agreed
Maybe it’s just that the prospect obsession around Edmonton has become more visible as fan blogs become more numerous. Still, I’d be interested to know more about why prospects have such high regard in the first place. As far as I’m concerned , they don’t even become legit until they get the term “two-way” removed from their contract.
Yeah, I don’t buy the hype around Drew Doughty yet. But Stamkos, that guy’s a keeper!
Puck Worlds: Chasing Pucks from here to Turku.
For Twitter Updates on Puck Worlds, follow @puckworlds. For updates plus additional witty banter from yours truly, follow @saskhab.
by Bruce Peter on Aug 25, 2011 11:46 PM MDT up reply actions

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