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Duane Sutter Joins the Oilers Scouting Staff

In 1977 Brian Sutter joined the St. Louis Blues and from that point forward – a span of 34 seasons – at least one member of the Sutter family has been a player, head coach, or general manager in the NHL. Brian, Brent, Darryl, Duane, Rich, and Ron have now been followed to the NHL by Brandon and Brett, with more likely to follow as the Sutter family moves into its second generation in the NHL.

Between them they’ve got a combined 84 seasons as players, another 31 as head coach, and seven as general manager. In total they’ve spent 8,289 games on the ice or behind the bench and before yesterday when it was announced that Duane had been added to Edmonton's pro scouting staff the only direct connection between the Oilers and the Sutter family was the 1976 WHA draft when Brian was selected 36th overall.

Duane Sutter played 11 seasons in the NHL for the Islanders and Chicago winning four Stanley Cups during the Islanders four-peat from 1980 through 1983. After his playing career ended in 1990 he spent time with the Panthers as an assistant and head coach as well as in their scouting department. Most recently he was the Flames Director of Player Personnel, a title he was relieved of in June. Sutter joins an Oilers pro scouting group that hasn’t done a very good, or even passable, job in recent seasons and while any change can be seen as a positive, how much impact this will have on the Oilers on-ice fortunes is debateable.

Star-divide

I’ve complained before that although the Oilers have drafted well of late the team’s ability to identify NHL talent during Steve Tambellini’s tenure as general manager has been lackluster at best. A more apt description of their performance would be terrible. If a rebuild is going to be successful (in other words, it ends at some point) it can’t be based on draft picks alone. Finding assets in the NHL to fill holes and provide support to the youth in the line-up is critical.

During his time as General Manager Kevin Lowe didn’t hit everything out of the park when it came to trades and signings involving NHL players but he more often than not held his own. Tambellini on the other hand has won a couple of trades when he’s had the opportunity to take advantage of another general manager in a vulnerable position but if you exclude those two trades his average is well below the Mendoza Line.

So between Lowe and Tambellini what happened?

During the Tambellini era the pro scouting staff identified in the Oilers media guides has remained virtually unchanged with Morey Gare as the Head of Pro Scouting and Michael Abbamont and Dave Semenko by his side. The only differences from that core group are Rob Daum who joined the group for the 2008/09 season and Chris Cichocki who is listed as a pro scout in the Sutter press release; I can’t find any reference to him before that though so he appears to be new this season as well.

Before Tambellini took over the reins in 2008 the media guides don’t distinguish between amateur, pro, and European scouts but given that the group of men listed as scouts during Lowe’s last three seasons is identical to the group Tambellini had in his first season (minus Lorne Davis who passed away), it’s safe to assume that the jobs each had remained the same. So if the scouts are the same, but the result is significantly different we’re left with two options for the decline in performance: Gare, Abbamont, and Semenko forgot how to do their jobs or the person making the final decision is the problem.

The former may be possible but the latter seems a lot more likely to me. In that case the addition of Sutter to the group may be of little consequence as long as Tambellini is the one calling the shots. Maybe the best we can hope for is that more voices in the room will help drown out the voices in Tambellini’s head telling him what moves to make. If not, we could be looking at more of the same and that isn’t a good thing if you’re a fan of the Oilers.

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I would feel better about this if he wasn’t coming from an organization that gave away the farm for Ollie Jokinen and gave away Phaneuf for a bunch of never will be’s.

by gcw_rocks on Aug 23, 2011 12:30 PM MDT reply actions  

I think Jokinen can be blamed entirely on Mike Keenan.

by godot10 on Aug 23, 2011 1:24 PM MDT up reply actions  

During his time as General Manager Kevin Lowe didn’t hit everything out of the park when it came to trades and signings involving NHL players but he more often than not held his own. Tambellini on the other hand has won a couple of trades when he’s had the opportunity to take advantage of another general manager in a vulnerable position but if you exclude those two trades his average is well below the Mendoza Line.

You’ve said a mouthful there – two mouthfuls, in fact. Have you documented these two statements somewhere or are they just generalized opinion?

Btw, if you exclude trades where one GM is at a disadvantage you would be excluding a lot. Both CFP trades for starters.

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Aug 23, 2011 12:42 PM MDT reply actions  

Have you documented these two statements somewhere or are they just generalized opinion?

How many good signings/trades has Tambellini made? Staios and Smyth? Lowe wasn’t excellent in his time either but off the top of my head I’d put the getting Gilbert, Peca, Roloson, Grebeshkov all in the plus column along with the Hemsky contract and I’m sure there would be more if I took some time. Lowe might not have been the best GM out there but I’d say his record is a boatload better than Tambellini’s.

Btw, if you exclude trades where one GM is at a disadvantage you would be excluding a lot. Both CFP trades for starters.

For sure extreme disadvantage trades are tough to give a GM credit or blame for. In Tambellini’s plus column the Smyth trade doesn’t really belong might like getting Pronger shouldn’t count for Lowe. A trade where a GM is forced into a deal aren’t exactly the norm though. And on normal trades Tambellini’s history is terrible.

Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and a frequenter of the time waster that is Twitter.

by ryanbatty on Aug 23, 2011 2:01 PM MDT up reply actions  

And on normal trades Tambellini’s history is terrible.

by Smytty777 on Aug 23, 2011 2:13 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hmm, not sure what happened there, anywho…

I don’t think that statement is supportable given that few trades are “wins” and for every trade “win” there has to be an accompanying trade “loss” for the other side. So on average NHL teams and GMs break even at the trade table.
 
Tambellini has made 17 deals since being hired. On a brief scan of the trades 4 appear to be “wins”, 4 “losses” and the remainder seem to be pretty even or inconsequential.

Based on that Tambellini would appear to be about average as a trading GM.

His decisions in free agency however….

by Smytty777 on Aug 23, 2011 2:21 PM MDT up reply actions  

What four are you listing as wins?

Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and a frequenter of the time waster that is Twitter.

by ryanbatty on Aug 23, 2011 2:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

Fraser and 7th (2012) for Smytty
Staios for Johnson and Ewanyk
Grebeshkov for Curtis Hamilton
Riley Nash for Martin Marincin

I also quite like Garon for Stone, Sabourin and Reider but I put that down as inconsequential.

by Smytty777 on Aug 23, 2011 3:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

Fraser and 7th (2012) for Smytty

A win yes but it fell into his lap and there was no way he could have lost

Staios for Johnson and Ewanyk

Win

Grebeshkov for Curtis Hamilton

Looks good but not applicable to the pro scouting staff

Riley Nash for Martin Marincin

See the Grebeshkov trade

Looking at the moves that brought in an NHL player during the Tambellini era there isn’t much that’s good.

Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and a frequenter of the time waster that is Twitter.

by ryanbatty on Aug 23, 2011 3:55 PM MDT up reply actions  

How do you spin the Staios trade as “taking advantage of a GM in a vulnerable position”, exactly? The Smytty trade, I’ll buy. (Both Smytty trades, come to that, although the first is on Lowe’s dossier.)

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Aug 23, 2011 3:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don’t spin the Staios trade that way. I just see it and Smyth as the only two wins for Tambellini. Not much in the way of signings I like either.

Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and a frequenter of the time waster that is Twitter.

by ryanbatty on Aug 23, 2011 3:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

I connected the dots between:


Tambellini on the other hand has won a couple of trades when he’s had the opportunity to take advantage of another general manager in a vulnerable position but if you exclude those two trades his average is well below the Mendoza Line.

… and …

How many good signings/trades has Tambellini made? Staios and Smyth?

… and concluded that Staios was the second of the two that was construed as taking advantage. Obviously I misread, sorry.

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Aug 23, 2011 5:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

Sutter joins an Oilers pro scouting group that hasn’t done a very good, or even passable, job in recent seasons and while any change can be seen as a positive, how much impact this will have on the Oilers on-ice fortunes is debateable.
So if the scouts are the same, but the result is significantly different we’re left with two options for the decline in performance: Gare, Abbamont, and Semenko forgot how to do their jobs or the person making the final decision is the problem. The former may be possible but the latter seems a lot more likely to me.

These two statements are incongruous. He’s joining an Oilers pro scouting staff that’s shat the bed the last three years…yet the scouts have been the same since the Lowe era, so it’s probably not the scouts that are at fault?

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
Robertson's Rants - Exceedingly occasional, lengthy ramblings on hockey topics, hosted at Puck Podcast. And no, my name's not Doug.

by Doogie2K on Aug 23, 2011 3:59 PM MDT reply actions  

Could have written the first sentence better now that I re read it.

End of the day those scouts did a lot better job under Lowe than they have done under Tambellini. If only one thing has changed that would be where I would start laying blame.

Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and a frequenter of the time waster that is Twitter.

by ryanbatty on Aug 23, 2011 4:07 PM MDT up reply actions  

That makes a lot of sense. I was willing to buy the “pro scouting has taken a shit” angle as long as I was too lazy to do the research and see, but now that I see you have…fuck that, Tambo’s just a retard.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
Robertson's Rants - Exceedingly occasional, lengthy ramblings on hockey topics, hosted at Puck Podcast. And no, my name's not Doug.

by Doogie2K on Aug 23, 2011 7:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

The reason mostly being that Lowe was trying everything to keep the Oilers fighting for that 8th spot, Tambo tried everything to keep the Oilers in 30th (he just didn’t do anything). Before this summer I said this would be the summer where Tambo goes from sitting in the middle to one side or the other, (can’t judge too hard with the rebuild and dumping contracts), I thought he did well this summer, we will see what happens when the Oilers are ready to push for playoffs.

by Tanman37 on Aug 23, 2011 11:04 PM MDT reply actions  

So do you think he was trying to put the team in 30th place in 2009-10?

If so, why spend almost to the cap?

In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!

by dawgbone98 on Aug 26, 2011 12:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

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