Dear Vancouver Canucks...
by Derek Zona on Jun 15, 2011 8:45 PM MDT
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Thanks. They deserve all of the pain.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
My brother asked me whether Vancouver knew Game 7 was tonight since they were so, so lethargic. I have to ask the wizards at C&B: Did the Nucks know it wasn’t a Best of 9? They made Tampa in the ECF Game 7 look like they were on Red Bull™ and Jolt™.
Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog
The Canucks are who we thought they were.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
by Derek Zona on Jun 15, 2011 9:38 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
not true. we thought them to be winners. Boston though beat them fair and square.
Success is not a goal..its a byproduct
SumOil, I think you spelled that wrong.
It’s w-h-i-n-e-r-s.
whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender
by anytime_I_can on Jun 18, 2011 8:08 PM MDT up reply actions
In all seriousness
Lou will get roasted in the media/blogs after this, however undeservedly. His team choked…not many teams win when they don’t score. Not many games are one 1 nothing either. He did his part for the team, with the exception of the games in Boston. But still, they didn’t score on the road. I place all the blame on the players, Sedins & Kessler, Beiksa and his D team.
Van is a great city, with great people who become douche bags when hockey is involved. So I am happy to see them loose, and be relegated the the “never won jack shit in the NHL club”
Lou is still the man for his Gold medal in my book
Lou is going to be shouldering an unfair part of the blame for sure.
Not quite sure why it always has to be so and so choked. Sometimes the other team is just better.
Tomorrow, baked beans and cream pie will be served in this household.
by eddy the lip on Jun 15, 2011 9:31 PM MDT up reply actions
Not saying it was his shining moment, but I have a hard time laying those losses entirely on his doorstep. There was some team effort goin’ on.
by eddy the lip on Jun 15, 2011 9:42 PM MDT up reply actions
I blame Lou… I agree about the team but seriously, the goals he let in were shit… his GAA was over 4 and that was with 2 shutouts… he choked!
Boston 0 at Vancouver 1 great game by lou
Boston 2 at Vancouver 3 (OT) great game by lou
Vancouver 1 at Boston 8 1 goal is on the team. Lou bears some responsibility
Vancouver 0 at Boston 4 this is on the team. No one wins with 0 goals
Boston 0 at Vancouver 1 great game
Vancouver 2 at Boston 5 on Lou
Boston 4 at Vancouver 0 this is on the team. No one wins with 0 goals one goal in the first and bam, different game.
Point is, Lou didn’t loose the series. Don’t dump the blame on him,
by Rob Dombowsky on Jun 16, 2011 12:52 AM MDT up reply actions
Maybe it’s just me, but I feel like a lot of the blame should fall on the Hart trophy/Art Ross trophy winning/nominated wonder-twins who did literally nothing this series, and for most of the post-season as a whole.
I will say this though; Luongo still hasn’t figured out (and probably never will) how to steal big games when it matters. But he only deserves a fraction of the blame for this compared to a lot of other guys on the team.
Luongo isn't among the best of the best, but he's still pretty good
Have to agree with Jean here. Was Luongo MVP material? No, he wasn’t, sorry grapes. But was he “the reason” for the loss? No.
23 – 7 was the overall series score.
In 7 games, Boston scored just over 3 goals per game: high, but not unreasonable.
Vancouver scored 1 goal per game: No one will win the cup scoring at a 1 gpg clip. For a team that was supposed to have the league’s best offence, they fell extremely short, far more so than Luongo did.
You blinked and missed G2 OT.
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jun 16, 2011 10:12 AM MDT up reply actions
Score by period
BOS – 6 – 10 – 7 – 0 = 23
VAN – 1 – 0 – 6 – 1 = 8
Vancouver generated NOTHING in the first two periods.
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jun 16, 2011 10:15 AM MDT up reply actions
And Luongo didn’t stop much in the first two periods either.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Not in the losses he sure didn’t
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jun 16, 2011 12:35 PM MDT up reply actions
How many of Vancouver’s power plays should Luongo have scored on?
Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.
by Benjamin Massey on Jun 15, 2011 9:41 PM MDT up reply actions
Luongo – 8th in sv pct. of 16 playoff goalies.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
So the median. WHAT A FUCKING CHOKER.
Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.
by Benjamin Massey on Jun 15, 2011 9:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Also, I pray I don’t have to educate you on how sample size works.
Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.
by Benjamin Massey on Jun 15, 2011 9:52 PM MDT up reply actions
Don’t lecture me on power play opportunities in 7 games and then bitch about save percentage in 25 games, ole’ confirmation bias Ben.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
And I thought the Burrows/Lucic thing was getting ugly.
by eddy the lip on Jun 15, 2011 10:11 PM MDT up reply actions
The power play was a reason they lost; perhaps the primary reason. It doesn’t mean the power play is bad. In fact, I’d say we have 82 games of pretty good evidence that it isn’t.
Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.
by Benjamin Massey on Jun 15, 2011 10:15 PM MDT up reply actions
It’d take one hell of a powerplay to overcome 8-1, 4-0 and 5-2 losses… are you saying you thought the powerplay should’ve scored 17 goals in those 3 games because that is the only way they would’ve won…
by Czechboy on Jun 15, 2011 10:19 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, but the PP should have scored more goals than it gave up FFS.
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jun 16, 2011 1:53 AM MDT up reply actions
As a fan of Lou, I have to say he choked. Top goalies rise to occasion and play their best. He played his worst. No team could win the cup cup with a goalie having such a poor save percentage.
The rumors are true – he cant handle the big games. I hope he overcomes it, but his value just dropped big time.
by book!e on Jun 15, 2011 10:39 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Vancouver offence is approx 2.35 GF in the playoffs.(15th in the league).
Seriously, this would be around 30th in the league during reg. season.
Vancouver lost because of lack of goal scoring! There is no other reasonable or justifiable response.
Vancouver was lucky to get as far as they did. Luongo was the reason they got as far as he did.He was the most ‘valuable player to his team in the playoffs.’
Vancouver won 11 one goal games and only had a two goal lead 5 times.
They don’t have a Norris defenceman, and their best defenceman (hamhus) didn’t play in the finals.
There is no value in a loss. in Vancouver 15 wins his numbers sav% and ga were
as good as Thomas.
Thomas won two games letting in 5 and 4 goals .
Both were in 7 game series. IF Boston’s offense did not bail him out
There is no ‘Thomas is the greatest myth’.
Similarly, if Vancouver’s offence does the same and wins one of the game in the finals when luongo let in 4 or 5 they win the cup.
Objectively, The two goalies playoff performances and ability were/are far closer than the subjective myth makers claim.
Save percentage in the Finals
Thomas 238/246 = .967
Schneider 39/41 = .951
Luongo 163/183 = .891
Luongo faced 74% as many shots as Thomas and let in 250% as many goals.
But that’s just subjective myth making on my part.
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jun 16, 2011 10:29 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks …a classic case of selection bias :)
to support the myth
we can pick 7 game stretch of any goalie and findexactly what we want to support our myth.
i.e. Renne against Nashville,
Obviously, Vancouver lost in part because they couldn’t buy a goal, and in part because they had too many good players on the shelf, but to absolve Luongo of culpability here is ridiculous. He sieved it up in three of the six losses, and was just okay in Game 7 last night. Sure, he was lights-out in the three wins, but you have to win four to get the big shiny thing.
Also, here’s a shocking statement: goalies tend to have better stats in wins than losses over even a series-length sample size. In other news, teams tend to win when they score more goals, and give up fewer goals, than the other guy. Want to talk selection bias?
There is no value in a loss. in Vancouver 15 wins his numbers sav% and ga were as good as Thomas.
Traktor is less of a cherry-picker about Shawn Horcoff than this. Jesus Pogo-Sticking Christ.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
This is not selection bias.
This is a philosophical argument. duh?
To restate : when evaluating a player as the "most valuable "
(This IS what the Conn Smythe is supposedly for?)
The point you missed IS : what value does a player contribute to his team by playing well in a loss?
Why not debate /counter/address this point?
To assess value we need to calculate how much each player contributed to each of the 16 wins his team had
Luongo is clearly the player on the Canucks who contributed – and needed to contribute the most to his teams wins.
And its obvious Vancouver’s anemic offence distorts Luongo’s bad performances and Boston’s excellent offence (3.24/g) hids Thomas bad games
Thomas clearly played more consistently
If a goalie sieves it up periodically and gives his team no chance to win, how valuable is he?
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
Luongo definitely has to eat some of this. You don’t get lit up four times without being rightly fingered as a big part of the problem, even with two shutouts. But you are right, there’s lots of blame to go around, here. Tampa certainly found a way to light up Thomas at points in their series; he’s not indestructible.
Though part of me also wonders if Vancouver had started to run out of bodies by Game 7. It’ll be interesting to see how many guys were playing on one leg.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
It’s the epitime of a team loss.
You can’t win when you can’t score and it’s a lot harder to come back down 3-0 in the first period than 1-0.
That being said, this game was close for a while. Canucks had some decent chances before Boston got a bounce and the 1-0 lead. Play was back and forth before Marchand made it 2-0.
Then the Canucks PP fails again and they give up the 3-0 goal shorthanded.
Luongo had 3 excellent games, 3 horrible games and 1 average game. The Canucks on the other hand put up 6 awful games.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
Pretty much. He had to allow 0 or -1 (!) goals to win in five of the seven games (and in a sixth, both Canucks goals came in garbage time). Sure, he still got poleaxed in three of the games, but you can’t win with no run support.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
Quick! Fanshot this to Nucks Misconduct!
Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.
by Benjamin Massey on Jun 15, 2011 9:27 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
So they can burn it?
Blueshirt Banter - Where Rangers' Fans Matter
Tracking the Rangers - Numbers don't lie. They just don't agree with you.
Twitter: RangerSmurf
by George E. Ays on Jun 15, 2011 9:28 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I blame eastern creeps and bums.
Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.
by Benjamin Massey on Jun 15, 2011 9:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Haven’t you heard? All of those people in Canucks sweaters aren’t Canucks fans. They are protestors, rioters and anarchists all disguised as Canucks fans. They spent the money on tickets and replicas as part of the long con.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
by Derek Zona on Jun 16, 2011 8:40 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
We are all Rioters
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on Jun 16, 2011 10:24 AM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Vancouver just did not earn it!
Not their time yet need to be better! Starts with the Fans!
by Sheldon Oilers Fan for Life on Jun 15, 2011 9:30 PM MDT reply actions
Reasons why I am happy they lost
1 – The celebration after the game 7 win in Chicago and the confetti after beating the Sharks.
2 – Alex F-ing Burrows with the slew foot and spear at the end of the game. A really first rate douchebag. Fuck him and I am sure that having his name engraved on the cup would have made Lord Stanley rise from his grave to take the trophy back with him.
3 – Luongo and his fragile emotional state.
4 – Band wagon jumping fans that boo their team during a deep playoff run
…………any others??
And green lasers and supporting Todd Bertuzzi
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
No, that one’s only Montreal.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
yeah, Burrows just had the random head shot on Peverley 200 feet from the puck.
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jun 16, 2011 12:08 PM MDT up reply actions
Thomas, the media darling, is the one who put a stick in a Canuck’s face while skating by. Works both ways.
I saw that different. (Of course, I’m an old goalie, I see everything different) Thomas put his stick up to protect his crease like lots of goalies do, make opponents skate around the blue paint rather than cruise right on through. Except Hansen kept coming and skated right into the butt end of Thomas’ stick. TT wasn’t even looking at him at the time, was facing the play in the other direction. And the stick was there before Hansen skated into it, it’s not like Thomas brought it up and smashed him in the face with it. Weird play, for sure.
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jun 17, 2011 9:10 AM MDT up reply actions
gotta ask...
Since all I ever hear about is how the playoffs are all about Canadians… where are they?
http://www.nhl.com/ice/statshome.htm#?navid=nav-sts-main
Looks like Czechs, Americans, Slovaks and Swedes to me.
Don’t get me wrong, I agree that a team stacked with Canadians will always do better than a team with Europeans.. but when non Canadians lead in EVERY SINGLE CATEGORY it gets ZERO mention… ZERO!!! If Marchand had scored 2 more there would be headlines about how a ‘clutch Canadian’ led the playoffs in goal scoring…
Bag, it’s 2011, who cares where players are from. There are plenty of tough euros and soft Canadians.
by book!e on Jun 15, 2011 10:41 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
I’d have bet my house that the Canucks would have won this series, I guess that’s why they play the games. Watching the game in Nashville tonight it was a very pro Boston crown. Wasn’t a single person upset with the result.
Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and a frequenter of the time waster that is Twitter.
by ryanbatty on Jun 15, 2011 11:01 PM MDT via mobile reply actions
Haha fuck you Alex Burrows. And FUCK YOU Jannik Hansen. Jesus Christ you are a pussy.
by RudyKelly on Jun 15, 2011 11:34 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
and Lapierre… screw that diving tool.
Hell on Ice/In Lou We Trust/Twitter
Talking toilet, you may call me Jane.
by Kevin Sellathamby on Jun 16, 2011 6:14 AM MDT up reply actions
All my fellow ex-pat Albertans make it out alright tonight? What a gong show. And to everyone outside of BC, please keep this in mind: most of these douchebags DO NOT live downtown. It’s the Surrey/Burnaby/Richmond crowd that’s doing most of the damage I guarantee it.
Well, I got home okay and Raffi Torres looked fine when I saw him throwing a fire extinguisher through the windows of that Future Shop.
Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.
by Benjamin Massey on Jun 16, 2011 12:23 AM MDT up reply actions
:(
Much sadness.
The trolling sucks when it is directed at you. I prefer being the troller, not the trollee.
Sigh.
You can go through life adrift and alone
desperate, desolate, on your own
but we're lookin' for a few more stalwart clones
so come and join us
you can always talk about how you guys played 2 more months of hockey than us.
Success is not a goal..its a byproduct
And it amounted to absolutely nothing.
The Boston Bruins finished first; all 29 other teams finished second.
That’s crap. We’d be thrilled if we had been the best team of the regular season and Western conference champions. I’m sure they are gutted not to win the Stanley, but lets not diminish what that team did achieve.
The President’s Trophy thing is a bit before my time, but do you know how I felt when the Oilers were Western Conference champions and that’s all five years ago? Not thrilled.
Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.
by Benjamin Massey on Jun 16, 2011 9:09 AM MDT up reply actions
Hey! Yeah, Sharks won the Presidents Trophy as well. We have that to cheer about. Until we add the little footnote bout the 8th seed Ducks taking us out in the 1st round (but no one really wants to remember that bit anyways).
GO SHARKS!
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin (see profile for more info on this quote)
I thought I’d contribute: an open letter to the Canucks and their fans over at M&G. http://sbn.to/iPDE5r
Also, in regards to the Vancouver riots- this is Darwinism at its finest: http://deadspin.com/5812521/
General Question
What does Luongo’s Scoring Chance save percentage look like? Thomas’ will be good, but I’m just wondering how bad Roberto actually was.
When the scoring chance articles started appearing, I instantly thought back to Strat-o-Matic hockey, where you can keep track of save percentage and scoring chance save percentage. The latter is the one that really matters. Anywho, I was wondering if the scoring chance trackers complied goalie save %s for just the scoring chances?
Did anyone else catch Alain Vin…. after the game saying the reason Boston won had to do with “their game plan was to hit after the whistle” oh yeah and “Thomas was great”
The Bruins hit after the whistle and the Canucks hit after the puck was gone.
The Bruins played rough and a little bit dirty, the Canucks just played dirty.
Just a sampling from last night:
Hansen Spears McQuaid in the groin.
Hansen smoked Ference when the puck was nowhere near him in retaliation for a high stick made during an actual hockey play (it’s not like Chara just stuck him in the face).
Higgins jumps into Chara’s head.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
I PVR’d the game and watched that high stick a couple times slow, he lifted Chara’s stick and hit himself in the face with it.
But then again, Tim Thomas butt-ended Hansen in the face without a call.
Both teams pretty much sucked this year.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
I’m gonna have to look at that again. On first viewings, I thought Thomas wasn’t even looking, he just did what a lot of goalies do when traffic gets heavy: put his stick up over his crease to establish his territory and make guys skate around it. And Hansen just skated right into the butt end.
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jun 16, 2011 12:04 PM MDT up reply actions
As Oilers fans, we should appreciate Vancouver’s strategy here. The Sedin’s know what they are doing, we can’t criticize.
Smart work by Daniel and Henrik, finally understanding that building through the draft is what leads to long term success. Now, thanks to their dedication, Vancouver will have the opportunity to pick up Brandon Saad with the 29th pick. Smart move in acquiring the better draft pick, that’s how you build long term success.
My favorite tweet from last night:
@pleasuremotors: Vancouver fans, I’ve been there, and let me just say, from the bottom of my heart: I’m so glad you’re there now. Fuck you.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Tweet Tweet
by Evilducks on Jun 16, 2011 9:22 AM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I liked the tweet that said something like “It’s so quiet in Rogers Arena right now you can hear them polishing the Stanley Cup”
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jun 16, 2011 10:11 AM MDT up reply actions
@Derek: Did you really post this story under “Analysis”?
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
I wondered if anyone would notice that! :)
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Well, like I’ve always said about John Garrett, “analysis” is a complicated concept, but he’s got the first four letters down pat. :)
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jun 16, 2011 10:46 AM MDT up reply actions
I giggled more than I should have last night when I selected “Analysis” in the drop down.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
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