Ales Hemsky - Dehumanized and Commodified
by Scott Reynolds on May 31, 2011 11:33 AM MDT
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PrintThere's been quite a bit of talk in the last several months about trading Ales Hemsky, and I understand why that is. When you have a good player on a good contract, you should be able to get something of value, and when your team is terrible, it seems smart to move present value for future value. This is especially the case when the player in question is a walking infirmary, as seems to be the case with Hemsky. So I understand why this is happening, but I just can't shake the idea that, if Ales Hemsky is willing to stay in Edmonton, the Oilers would be foolish to let him go.
The obvious reason not to move Hemsky is his play when healthy. He's phenomenal. You can see that with the eye test, and you can see it by looking at Derek's scoring chance analysis, which shows a player who's holding his own in difficult circumstances. But is he really? If we compare his chance percentage and Corsi percentage (which we know is the best proxy for zone time), the new information isn't all that encouraging:
As in the Jeff Petry article where I looked at defensemen, I've highlighted all of the players with a significantly different Corsi and scoring chance percentage. With the defenders there were a couple of interesting items, but in the top nine forwards, guys are all over the map! In general, the players are worse by the Corsi numbers, but the trio of Magnus Paajarvi, Linus Omark, and Sam Gagner buck that trend something fierce. Ales Hemsky does not. By Corsi numbers, he and Dustin Penner were the two worst-performing top nine forwards on the team. In addition, as Bruce points out, the power play this season was atrocious and Hemsky is the guy most responsible for making it hum. And how difficult are those circumstances anyway? Let's look at the zone starts for the top nine forwards:
Um... what? I think before continuing I should note that the numbers above are from Vic Ferrari's tool, and that Vic's numbers differ significantly from Gabe's. Linus Omark, for instance, goes from 42.8% using Vic's tool to 53.4% using Gabe's, which is a massive difference. As such, I'm reluctant to draw too many conclusions from this char in particular. Well, except that I'd really like to know why there's such a massive discrepancy.
But for Hemsky, things don't change much. He goes from the top of the list using Vic's tool to the top of the list using Gabe's tool. In addition to the safe circumstances, we was always playing with quality linemates, and at least infrequently, he was playing weaker opposition. I don't know that we can really say that Hemsky was playing particularly difficult minutes this season.
Having now made the case for trading Hemsky, I'll now say that we should keep him. Naturally. All bad teams have a fundamental problem and the Oilers are no different: good players don't want to play for bad teams. Ales Hemsky is a good player. Strong percentages covered what was a weak season in 2010-11, but he has a long track record of success in this league and remains in his prime. If by some miracle Ales Hemsky wants to stay in Edmonton, and the Oilers can get him under contract at a reasonable number (I think a front-loaded five years at $5.5M + NMC is ballpark), then they need to do it. But they also need a deadline like, say, July 5th. If the date comes and goes, he's too valuable not to move, and too fragile not to move before the season starts.
Projection: Ales Hemsky doesn't sign and isn't traded; he scores at just under a point per game pace but only plays fifty to sixty games, getting injured just before the deadline, which prevents the Oilers from trading him. Hemsky then leaves as an unrestricted free agent.
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IIRC, Vic’s tool counts 4 on 4 and Gabe’s does not. Gabe also counts empty net time. Was Omark sent out in those situations? That could be 20 o-zone faceoffs, given how poorly the Oilers fared this season.
It’s a bigger issue than that. Vic has 257 OZ and 344 DZ, while Gabe has 167 OZ and 146 DZ.
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on May 31, 2011 1:43 PM MDT up reply actions
Was there a number change at all?
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
I don’t think so. Hockey-Reference has Omark as the only #23.
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on May 31, 2011 1:57 PM MDT up reply actions
any way you can get total faceoffs? nhl.com thinks edmonton had 3504 even strength faceoffs, maybe you can work backwards from that. (vic’s feel correct, intuitively, based on the 3504 number)
Keep in mind that Omark only played a total of 648:22 at EV.
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on May 31, 2011 2:44 PM MDT up reply actions
hm, then perhaps not. what vic ferrari script compiles faceoffs? i’ve only seen the one that goes game-to-game.
http://timeonice.com/teamfaceoffs1011.php?team=EDM&first=20001&last=21500
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on May 31, 2011 7:07 PM MDT up reply actions
hm. yeah, i wouldn’t trust this. i manually compiled kovalchuk’s zone start from vic’s scripts and it was -79, this has it as -58. and i can’t really believe that edmonton was so close to 50% or that NJ was below 50%.
Both Vic and Gabe have the Oilers close to 50%, so that’s not too big of a surprise, but yeah if Kovalchuk’s is off by that much, then that’s something for sure. Maybe I’ll just ask Vic what’s up.
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on Jun 1, 2011 5:44 AM MDT up reply actions
Projection: Ales Hemsky doesn’t sign and isn’t traded; he scores at just under a point per game pace but only plays fifty to sixty games, getting injured just before the deadline, which prevents the Oilers from trading him. Hemsky then leaves as an unrestricted free agent.
As depressing as that is, it’s exactly what I would have predicted as well.
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by ryanbatty on May 31, 2011 12:00 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
Listening to Katz’ interview with Bob Stauffer and picking up other tidbits, along with the Penner trade tells me the Oilers have a defined core age-range which Hemsky falls outside of. I’m no rocket surgeon but my guess is he gets moved along this summer if even the slightest opportunity presents itself.
Most likely it’ll be another one of those “picks and hopefuls” trades we’ll all rue for months afterwards. “Value” will be highly debatable.
That’s a bit crazy to me in that Hemsky is just 28 next season. If the goal is to be competing for the Stanley Cup in three to five years, I’d say that Hemsky fits in just fine. He’d be on the older end of his prime, but that’s not really a bad thing.
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on May 31, 2011 1:49 PM MDT up reply actions
I agree. But the Penner trade might have been the tip-off. To me it’s insanity to trade either of them, yet down the road he went. The fact that we got so little in return for Penner says to me there’s some urgency in this strategy. IMO, any key forward older than 24 or so is at risk.
Complete list of key forwards older than twenty-four minus Horcoff:
Ales Hemsky
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on May 31, 2011 2:59 PM MDT up reply actions
Hemsky hasn’t been able to make it through a season in quite awhile.
3 years is an eternity for a guy who spends most of his time on the injured list.
Did Craig Simpson make it to 30?
I hear you, but then again, Martin Havlat’s played an average of 77 games over the last three years after several years with a cascade of injuries. The anecdotal evidence runs both ways.
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on May 31, 2011 5:15 PM MDT up reply actions
If your drafting RNH with the first pick to run the power play, why do the Oilers need to keep Hemsky. Can Hemsky accept the “puck” being taken away from him? Or is it just better to trade him rather than deal with the internal conflict of diminishing his role?
How many pass first playmakers do the Oilers need? RNH, Gagner, Omark, Hemsky. Plus Hall who could fill that role also.
Of the guys you mentioned, Hemsky is currently the best playmaker, and he may well end up being the best for the next five or six years. Since we don’t know who the Oilers will pick this year, the “Nugent-Hopkins problem” isn’t a problem yet (and if it were up to me, Nugent-Hopkins wouldn’t be the pick), but if the Oilers do take Nugent-Hopkins, he won’t be given the PP QB role immediately. If he earns it over time, I don’t think Hemsky will have a problem stepping into a different role (likely sharing the puck more on the PP or increased ice time for him at EV to make up for lost PP duty), and a more successful team overall (since that would mean RNH is an elite NHL player). Having too many elite playmakers is a great problem!
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on May 31, 2011 2:57 PM MDT up reply actions
So the thing RNH is arguably best at, running a power play, you would NOT let him do?
Are they drafting him #1 to kill penalties?
If they are drafting him #1, then it speak volumes for what the Oilers think of Hemsky’s power play.
The funny thing about Hemsky is that he’s become a legit 1st line even strength player while the power play has suffered. So they’re going to replace him with a power play stay with questionable even strength ability.
Welcome to 2003.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
How many midgets can you have on one team?
RNH, Gagner, Omark, Cogliano, Hemsky, Eberle
I think two or three at most on a contender.
Eberle, RNH, and Gagner RNH projects as Hemsky, except he is a centre. Same basic player type and size.
**Omark can hang around for a few years until the bigger guys arrive. Maybe Cogliano too until Lander is ready.
**I am on Team Larsson.
I think two or three at most on a contender.
Could be more if you have a few penalty kill specialists or some real tough smurfs at evens.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
How big do you need to be to not qualify as a “midget”? Serious question.
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on May 31, 2011 5:16 PM MDT up reply actions
I know it’s a bit different since we’re talking about a guy going first overall, but generally young players struggle on the power play. I’m not saying that he shouldn’t get power play time because of that, just that it might be best to play him on the second unit at first to see what he needs to work on. That way he’ll have an opportunity to learn with less pressure and understand that when (if) he gets to the first unit, it will be on merit.
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on May 31, 2011 5:21 PM MDT up reply actions
How many pass first playmakers do the Oilers need? RNH, Gagner, Omark, Hemsky. Plus Hall who could fill that role also.
None of them are a true number one center. ™
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
by Derek Zona on May 31, 2011 4:29 PM MDT up reply actions 1 recs
Trading
I disagree completely with you Scott. I doubt the return for Hemsky would be significant in anyway if traded before the start of the season. While not an exact comparison I think back to what the Flyers recieved for Simon Gagne. Matt Walker and 4th rounder.
Makes the Penner trade seem fantastic! I doubt the Oil would get anything better in return especially with Hemsky having off season shoulder surgery. I think the best course of action is to try and work towards getting an extension and if Hemsky isn’t interested deal him during the course of the season once his health returns. The obvious risk is that the Oilers lose him for the season to injury and then for nothing to free agency. But he could light it up and the oilers could maximize the return.
Scott do think it is wise for Edmonton to invest so highly in an injury prone player? 5 years 5.5M?
by Peacecountry on May 31, 2011 3:21 PM MDT up reply actions
It’s important to remember that Gagne had a NTC, so he could basically call his shot (though even with that in mind, what a terrible trade by Holmgren). As for the injury, I don’t think it makes a huge difference. He’s projected to be fine after surgery so I don’t think that specific injury would be a big concern. The rather lengthy history of injuries would be, but that would be true no matter what. Having said all of that, I agree that an extension is the best way to go if Hemsky is willing to sign one. In terms of price, I think 5 at 5.5M is fine if the Oilers plan to be a Cap+ team. We saw this year how much Vancouver benefited from having players on LTIR for the entire season. It’s gaming the system, but it is effective. On a budget team (even if the budget is, say, $60M), that would likely be a bit high.
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on May 31, 2011 3:35 PM MDT up reply actions
So then, what is the acceptable return for Hemsky in your opinion if he is not resigned by the 5th of July? I think that the teams interested would have to be those looking at Hemsky as a secondary piece based on his injury history and either be looking to move salary in exchange or have cap room to absorb the salary.
If your interested in picks and prospects than you are looking at veteran NHL players. Would you be happy with a few journeyman? For example a top 6 Dman, a 3rd line Centre and a Backup. Or would you be looking at a 1 for 1 swap?
You have an interesting point regarding being a Cap+ team. My knowlege of the CBA is limited but can you start the year the being over budget and hope you get under based on injuries? I know you can add during the year after salaries have been adjusted to reflect injuries but I’m unsure how it works from the pre-season on.
by Peacecountry on May 31, 2011 4:41 PM MDT up reply actions
I want to be clear that July 5th is an imaginary date; it’s really whatever date the team sets as the deadline, although early July would be my preference. As for return, I’d be hoping for a building block for the future, but I’d be willing to take on salary in the process, something like Jakub Voracek and Mike Commodore or whoever the Devils take 4th OV and Brian Rolston. The key is that you’ve made your best offer and that it’s been rejected. At that point, you take what you can get.
After some reflection, the extension may also work well for the Oilers as a budget team. If they front-load the deal so that it runs 10 / 6 / 4 / 4 / 3.5 that’s better for Hemsky, and puts him on a sweetheart deal when they need more money for the young stars.
In response to your last question, you can only start the year overbudget if the player starts the year on LTIR (Vancouver had Burrows and Salo to start the year and were never completely healthy later).
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on May 31, 2011 5:11 PM MDT up reply actions
Just a note — I enjoy the use of “commodified” rather than “commoditized”
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Get over it. Trade him. ASAP.
Projection: Ales Hemsky doesn’t sign and isn’t traded; he scores at just under a point per game pace but only plays fifty to sixty games, getting injured just before the deadline, which prevents the Oilers from trading him. Hemsky then leaves as an unrestricted free agent.
Exact reason why as soon a s a deal can be made it should be made.
That problem could also be solved with an extension before the season, but yeah, if that’s not a possibility, it’s time to take what you can get.
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on May 31, 2011 5:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Don’t want to see him go but think he will and, possibly should. Be interesting to – not just –
see what Columbus would be willing to trade to get Hemsky BUT what Hemsky in exchange for Huselius gets back (i.e. for Columbus: an incredible improvement in play on the ice and a drop in overall salary and Cap hits at the same time).
I know this is kind of beside the point, but Hemsky’s salary is actually higher than Huselius’ next season, but only by a quarter million. Your point still largely stands, of course.
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on Jun 1, 2011 5:46 AM MDT up reply actions
If by some miracle Ales Hemsky wants to stay in Edmonton, and the Oilers can get him under contract at a reasonable number (I think a front-loaded five years at $5.5M + NMC is ballpark), then they need to do it.
You had me until the NMC. Those are the kiss of death. The Oil would be well advised to follow Brian Burke’s lead of not offering NMCs, period. Even NTCs should be limited. If it costs you some players, then so be it. Look at all the teams that are getting killed with players with NMCs that fail to live up to expectations, and this player comes with risk.
Sorry man, no bite here. Limited NTC, ok. Full NTC with a Kaberle-like out in the summer, maybe. Otherwise, pass all the way.
$5.5 MM?? 5 years into his $4.1 MM deal, has Hemsky had even one season that was $5.5 MM worth of performance?
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jun 1, 2011 8:34 AM MDT up reply actions
In a $60mil cap world?
06-07 and 07-08 and both of his last 2 years were well on pace.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
That’s what he will get if Gaborik got $7.5M, if you want to keep him. I can understand Scott’s case, and even his proposed salary. But, term and trade restrictions would be a big issue for me. No anchors please. If Souray hadn’t imploded, we would have traded him last season at the deadline because his no-trade was a limited one (in this case, 3 years of the 5 year deal) and been lauding Lowe for how he structred the deal. Sadly, Souray’s mouth and seemingly lack of self control (why do guys with hand problems fight anyway?) killed his value, but that doesn’t mean all elements of the contract were poor.
I’m not talking about “on pace”. I’m talking about actual performance.
When that includes 10 or 35 or 60 games of non-performance, he better be damn productive the time he’s in there.
Btw, in 2006-07 he was on pact for 17-51-68, -9. That’s no $5.5 MM player even under a $60 MM cap.
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jun 2, 2011 10:06 AM MDT up reply actions
It isn’t?
Currently there are 49 forwards who make $5.0+ mil per season. Those 49 players averaged 70.5 points/82 games and an average of 11.07 points/$1million cap hit this past year.
Even taking out all the forwards who earned less than 50 points while making $5.0mil/year the average is 75.4 points and 11.71 points/$1mil cap hit.
When you invest $5.5 mil, you should expect between 60 and 70 points based on the offensive numbers other players put up.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
Thanks. I guess $5.5 freakin’ million don’t buy what it used to. Holy shit.
Still, though, I’d be keen to see a similar comp based strictly on goals rather than points. I always like to consider both.
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jun 2, 2011 11:37 AM MDT up reply actions
Thanks. I guess $5.5 freakin’ million don’t buy what it used to. Holy shit.
No it doesn’t, that’s part of the problem.
Still, though, I’d be keen to see a similar comp based strictly on goals rather than points. I always like to consider both.
Figures… j/k
Fill out the goal pace over 82 games for the players on the list and I’ll dump it in the excel sheet (I need to do some work today).
Ovechkin
Malkin
Crosby
Staal
B Richards
Nash
Lecavalier
Heatley
Gaborik
Gomez
Thornton
Vanek
Drury
Spezza
Iginla
Marleau
Kopitar
Datsyuk
Backstrom
Kovalchuk
Stastny
Briere
Kane
Toews
Smyth
Sedin
Sedin
Zetterberg
Elias
Cammalleri
Semin
M Richards
Horcoff
Kessel
Getzlaf
Perry
Pominville
Hossa
Gagne
St. Louis
Ryan
Rolston
Ribeiro
Carter
Gionta
Havlat
Kovalev
Kesler
Plekanec
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
Uhh, OK. Won’t be today for me either.
Suffice to say that Hemsky would fare worse when comped by goals than points. In my world, and I expect the cap world too, goals have a tiny bit more weight than assists. Even though I agree that points is the first, best measure.
My original point stands, however, that whatever Hemsky’s rate stats, you’re paying him for actual production. Projecting forward you have to take both into account. Giving Ales Hemsky a five-year deal using projections that assume he’ll play 410 games would be nuts.
Put another way: Hemsky’s current contract pays him exactly $50K per game. But the last two years, his services have cost ~$120 K per game. Not such a bargain.
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jun 2, 2011 11:52 AM MDT up reply actions
If he’s playing 65+ games then he’s probably worth it. And he’s done that with the exception of the last 2 seasons.
The question is whether these last 2 seasons are an outlier or if he’s destined to be out of the NHL at 31 because he has managed to play 50 games twice in 6 years.
What’s interesting to look at is the divide between what makes a $5 mil player and say a $2.5 mil player and whether you can get away with no forwards on your team making between 2.6 and 4.9 mil/season and seeing what kind of team you can ice. The Canucks make a pretty good argument for this type of cap management.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
$5.5M is about the max you should be paying your 1st line RW. If you view Hemsky as that, the number is in the range. If Hemsky is a 1 ppg player, then he is also in the $5.5M range.
That said, the risk is he doesn’t play enough games. With Eberle, Omark and Pitlick all candidates for 1st and 2nd line RW spots, my view was Hemsky should have been traded last season in a hockey trade (Erik johnson perhaps?), but the Oil didn’t trade him and he got injured again.
I am on the view that you cannot, as a GM, let top assets go for nothing, so the Oilers have to trade him before the deadline, or re-sign him to a deal that makes him tradable later if Eberle shows he can be a 1st line RW (won’t be able to pay them both, most likely).
I think $5.5M is about average for a first line player if the budget is set at $60M. You can probably afford four forwards in that range, but it would need to descend quite quickly after that. If the Oilers end up with three forwards (it should be four, but they’ve already got Horc’s deal on the books) better than Ales Hemsky in the next five or six years it becomes a problem (if the cap doesn’t increase significantly and assuming the league’s structure remains close to the same after the next round of CBA negotiations), but that’s an awfully nice problem to have (assuming, of course, that the reason isn’t Hemsky’s performance falling off a cliff).
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on Jun 1, 2011 2:06 PM MDT up reply actions
Budget by line on $60M:
1st line $16,000,000
2nd line $10,000,000
3rd line $6,000,000
4th line $3,000,000
1st pairing $10,000,000
2nd pairing $7,000,000
3rd pairing $3,000,000
Starter $4,000,000
Backup $1,000,000
Total $60,000,000
You don’t need to pay $5mil for 2 goaltenders anymore.
Good goaltenders are popping up all over the place and supply is greater than demand.
The following teams spent $5mil or more on goaltending last year:
Calgary
Pittsburgh
Minnesota
Boston
New Jersey
Anaheim
Vancouver
NY Rangers
Buffalo
Toronto
Carolina
St. Louis
Phoenix
Florida
15 teams in total, 2 SC final teams and 8 teams who didn’t even make the playoffs.
I also think you are drastically overpaying your 3rd pairing and 4th line. Your 3rd pairing d-men should ideally be $1mil each tops, and your 4th line should be filled with guys making under $800k/season.
Your 2nd pairing D is probably also over priced, especially if you can specialize in certain areas.
i.e. a low event guy at es who can also pk on your 2nd pair (i.e. Jason Smith) and a guy who can play the pp but needs ES sheltering on your 3rd pair (i.e. MAB).
You can find these guys and save a lot of money this way. The key is to get good players.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
On goalies – that was the thinking last year. This year, I am not sure I would agree. Look at the final 4 this year. Tampa was about $4.7M. Boston is certainly over, as is Vancouver. San Jose went “cheap” and still paid $4M for thier two goalies.
On defence:
2nd pairing dmen costs per final 4 team:
TB – $6.1M (including 1 ELC, which will go up)
Bos – $5.5M
Van: $7.25M (third pairing is $6.3M)
SJ: $5.6M
Vancouver is paying:
1st line – $14.2M
2nd line – $~10M if its Kesler – Samuelson – Raymond
3rd line – $5.1M
So, I wouldn’t say I am that far out of the range. Van is lucky they have Burrows locked in at $2M per and can play on the top line.
4th line – yes, ideally you would pay $850K per head for your 4th line.
Look at the previous 4 years then.
Both Vancouver and Boston have sort of hit a lucky point where they can over pay in one area because they’ve saved in other areas.
What happens for next year when Bieksa, Ehrhoff, Higgins and Torres are all UFA’s?
Is paying $6mil in goaltending worth it when it costs you in other areas?
Don’t get me wrong, Luongo is a very good goalie but I don’t know if he’s better than a goalie a tier below + an upgrade at forward or defence.
In terms of what each team is paying for their 2nd pairing, keep the following in mind:
Boston acquired Kaberle late in the year (didn’t spend the full $4.25mil on his cap hit).
Vancouver had Salo on the LTIR for a good chunk of the season.
San Jose acquired Ian White late in the season, so they didn’t have the full $2.995 cap hit.
Tampa Acquired Brewer late in the year (didn’t spend the full $4.25 mil on his cap hit)
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
2009 the final 4 goalies were Fluery ($3.5M), Ward ($2.5M), Osgood/Hasek, and Khabby ($6.75).
2008 the final 4 goalies were Biron/niity, Fluery, Osgood, and Turco.. Osgood was cheap, Biron and Niity were about $3.6M combined. Turco was a big ticket and Fleury was on the last year of his ELC.
Add a million for the back up and unless you are running a goalie on an ELC you are going to pay between $4M and $6M for goaltending.
Re: Vancouver – they lose at least 1 d-man and 1 forward and sign someone else on the cheap who wants to win a cup or bring up a rookie. Happens to every team that wins in a cap world.
Re: bringing in players. Yes, but that’s the value of the players. Rentals or home grown, that’s what second pairing d-men make.
Re: paying $6M in goaltending – no, and Vacnouver is paying ~$7M when you add in Schnieder’s salary. It’s not sustainable. But quality goaltending can make up for a lot of other weaknesses (See: Miller, Ryan) and the Oil can’t go cheap in both d and goaltending. Got an average goalie, buck up on defence. Defensive pipeline a little thin, get a damn good goalie and pay him for the pain you are about to inflict. Don’t much care either way but you can’t go cheap on your top 4 d-men and your goaltending at the same time.
I think the 4th line / 3rd pairing estimates are actually in line if it accounts for a 7th defender as well as 13th and 14th forwards.
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on Jun 2, 2011 6:17 PM MDT up reply actions
I think the best way to o about it would Bo to try and trade him at the draft, if that doesn’t work out, then try to sign him. If that doesn’t happen then go ahead and get the best offer available.
Steve Tambelini should know by now whether Hemsky wants to resign or not. So he should use that knowledge to his advantage
Success is not a goal..its a byproduct
Even with the injury? What do you think his trade value would be at the draft? If its high, trade away, but if its low, do you still trade him?
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