Does Hockey Math Work?
Does this sound familiar? It should, it's one of the major arguments presented by those who do not appreciate the predictive value of math. In May of 2010, I wrote an article about using some basic advanced stats to give Oilers' fans a general idea of what they should expect from each 2009-2010 player for the 2010-2011 season. I relied heavily on On Ice Sh % and On Ice Sv % (PDO), both of which can be found at www.behindthenet.ca, courtesy of the dashing Gabriel Desjardins as well as career shooting % vs. 09-10 shooting % to determine which players were likely to regress.
After the jump, we'll take a look at those predictions and how they panned out.
Expected counting numbers increase
Andrew Cogliano - his 09-10 shooting percentage was less than half of his previous career average. Whether his previous career average was sustainable was the subject of fierce debate on a number of different sites, but he's definitely better than a 7.2% shooter.
Cogliano's shooting percentage rose slightly, from 7.9 to 8.5 percent. Cogliano tallied one more goal (11).
Fernando Pisani - he might be on the downside of his career, but his 09-10 shooting percentage was only 7.4%, compared to his previous career average of 13.3%. If he does leave Edmonton, he's leaving with his value lower than it's been since he left Providence.
Pisani left Edmonton, much to the dismay of our staff, for the greener pastures of Chicago after not being offered a contract. Pisani's shooting percentage rebounded to 9.7% from 7.4% and he scored 7 goals and collected 9 assists. He totaled 16 points, more than the Oilers' entire fourth line combined.
Ryan Whitney - he scored a boatload of points after he was acquired in exchange for Lubomir Visnovsky, but on the season he was still below his career shooting percentage.
Whitney actually duplicated his 09-10 shooting percentage, scoring only two goals in 35 games.
Sheldon Souray - everything about his game seemed to suffer last season, and his shooting percentage of 3.5% was about half of his career rate of 6.6%.
Not available. Souray was banished to the hinterlands by the management cabal at Rexall Place.
Taylor Chorney - he shot zero percent, so there's nowhere to go but up, right?
Incomplete. Chorney scored on 1 of his 13 shots on goal before falling to injury.
Expected counting numbers decrease
Aaron Johnson scored four goals this year (a career high) on shooting percentage of 11.1%. Don't expect him to match that again.
Not available - Johnson spent the entire season in the AHL with the Milwaukee Admirals.
Dustin Penner scored 32 goals on 15.8% shooting, nearly 30% higher than his previous career average. He did, however, break 200 shots and if he can do that again, the Oilers should expect 25 goals out of Penner.
Penner kept his shooting percentage high for most of the year, as he shot 15.3% for the Oilers and was on pace for 27 goals before being traded. After the trade, he hit an unlucky streak and only shot 5.6% for the Kings, scoring just two goals. His season totals were 13.8% and 23 goals.
Gilbert Brule - I touched on Brule's performance in December and hoped that the Oilers wouldn't open the vault for Brule during his upcoming contract negotiations. Jonathan Willis did much the same thing recently and came to many of the same conclusions I did - Brule is worth a signing, but if they're going to have to spend big on him, they should look to trade him. Why? Well, for starters, Brule's shooting percentage is a red flag. He doubled his career shooting percentage to get his 17 goals.
Before the 2009-2010 season, Brule's career shooting percentage was 7.1%. His 2009-10 season raised it to 9.8%. In 2010-11, his shooting percentage fell from 14% to 9.7% and he scored just 7 goals in 41 games.
Underlying stats expected to improve
Fernando Pisani - Like his shooting percentage, his underlying numbers fell off sharply as well. He was -17 in 40 games. Even with an average PDO, Pisani would have been -7 in 40 games. He's clearly not the tough-minutes beast of burden that Craig MacTavish used to throw over the wall in all situations, but if he can stay healthy, he should be able to bounce back - way back - against second and third-level minutes.
Pisani's PDO rebounded to 1011 and his even strength goal differential was +1. That's a bounce.
Mike Comrie - Comrie's terrible PDO was sunk by the .891 save percentage and he was -9 at evens in only 43 games. Get him back to an average PDO and Comrie was even at evens.
Incomplete - Comrie played only 21 games before suffering a hip injury in Pittsburgh
Patrick O`Sullivan - goat #2 for the Oilers in 09-10, O'Sullivan suffered through a brutal year by nearly every traditional and advanced measure. He was -30 at even strength and didn't face the toughest comp, though he did for a portion of the year which was spent with Horcoff and the anchor of the S.S. Oilers, J.F. Jacques. his PDO was an abysmal 956 and yes, his 5.8% shooting percentage had an effect on that, but both are bound to improve next year. With a PDO of 1000, O'Sullivan would be -8 at even strength.
O'Sullivan appeared in only 31 games for Carolina and Minnesota, but his PDO did rebound to 1016 and he was only a -1 at even strength in those 31 games, a -3 pace compared to his -30 in Edmonton last year
Ryan Potulny - Potulny had a breakout season, scoring 15 goals and adding 17 assists. He was the only shooting threat the Oilers had other than Dustin Penner and found himself on the power play quite often. However, he was also -19 at even strength. Even though Potulny himself shot 9.9%, his team on ice shooting percentage was only 6.63% and he wasn't helped by the .891 save percentage behind him. That 959 PDO did his numbers no favors. Potulny won't get those power play minutes this coming season, so he'll be hard-pressed to duplicate his counting numbers, but with an average PDO last season, he would have been -3, rather than -19.
Incomplete. Potulny appeared in only 10 games for the Blackhawks and Senators.
Shawn Horcoff - goat #1 for the Oilers in 09-10 and to a vociferous portion of the fan base every year since the Stanley Cup Finals run. Horcoff played with a bum shoulder for a large portion of the year and it showed. He was -28 at even strength this season and a look at the underlying numbers shows why. His PDO was a brutal 960 on the back of his .891 save percentage. Crank his PDO back up to 1000 and he would have been -6 at evens last year. Considering the quality of competition that Horcoff faced and the linemates he was saddled with, -6 is a fantastic year.
Horcoff's PDO regressed from a 960 to 1008 and he went from -28 at even strength to -2.
Sheldon Souray - not only was his shooting percentage half of what it should have been, when he was healthy, his teammates weren't giving him much help. His even strength save percentage was a team low .881. Souray was -14 at evens, but with an average PDO, he would have been +2. Whoever ends up taking Souray off of Edmonton's hands has a chance of landing a steal, if he can only stay healthy...
Not available due to that whole hinterlands and cabal thing.
Underlying stats expected to decline
Ladislav Smid - Smid's PDO wasn't obscene at 1021, but his underlying numbers were built largely on the back of his partnership with Visnovsky playing against third minutes. He was +5 at even strength, but with an average PDO, he would have been -3. If the Oilers can continue to protect Smid and get him a partner that can pass, Smid might not crash back to earth. Throw him out against second minutes with a similarly-skilled defenseman and look out below.
Smid's PDO regressed from 1021 to 985 and he went from +5 at even strength to -5 at even strength. The silver lining was his stable Corsi, despite losing Lubomir Visnovsky as his regular partner.
Zack Stortini - Bruce will argue this point, but Stortini was +1 at evens with the highest even strength save percentage for any full-season Oiler at .937. His PDO of 1034 is primed for a fall, and given an average PDO, he would have been -6.
Stortini's PDO regressed from 1034 to 997 and Stortini went from +1 in 691 minutes to a -2 in 225 minutes.
Conclusions
I made 16 small predictions from the basic math. Six of them were incomplete or not available. Of the remaining 10, 8 of them were spot on and the 9th, Cogliano's shooting percentage and counting numbers, improved slightly. The 10th, Whitney's shooting percentage, stagnated. The predictions were 90% accurate which tells me that even the simplest of advanced stats have predictive value.
Math, it works.
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Don’t give me no math Zona. I want heart, grit and jam. Gilbert’s a wuss and Penner’s lazy. I seen it with me own eyes.
by melancholyculkin on May 26, 2011 7:35 PM MDT reply actions
You sound like a pirate Pat Quinn.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Law of averages will usually work when applied to vague statistical predictions. This isn’t news.
Most of these are entirely obvious, and a couple of them are just a mess. I’d have had reservations about using “spot on” without an asterisk.
Most of these are entirely obvious, and a couple of them are just a mess
Feel free to expand on this, please.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
For the most part, predicting declines after career highs and rebounds after career lows isn’t an achievement. It’s not “hockey math”, it’s statistical probability. Chorney will shoot better than zero percent, and I also won’t win the lottery. Here’s one for next year: Jones will score less goals.
You also appear to be being choosy with your extrapolation – O’Sullivan (who’s improved play got him all the way to the AHL this year), comes out looking like an improvement in minimal games played.. but Comrie, who was -4 in 21 games while only playing 10 minutes a night manages to get written off as “incomplete”.
I’m also not really sure what the prediction for Penner was supposed to be. Seems like every base was covered there. He didn’t score 25 goals; is it because he didn’t get 200 shots? Or are we thinking that he would have scored more than 25 at his Oilers shooting percentage (which was supposed to go down but didn’t until he was relocated)? Some sort of extrapolation has to occur again here for this to be “spot on” – I’m just not sure which numbers I’m supposed to pretend happened.
It seems to me some of the numbers blogs (partly based on Willis’ stat work on the Springfield team that season) said the numbers supported Chorney as basically a dud or at least a real long shot. At the same time they supported his teammate Cody Wild as a player and it was a mistake by the Oil to let Wild go.
Chorney was among the best D on the Barons this season and had a decent little stint with the big club before the injury. Wild began the season in the AHL and then spent a big chunk of it in the ECHL and then I believe suffered an injury as well to finish out.
We are a couple years later down the road. Still to early to tell or are the numbers not looking good for this prediction?
Wild’s career hit a wall due to injuries and Chorney is either going to be a very late bloomer or he’s not going to bloom at all.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Math, it works.
I’m guessing this is hyperbole to stick needles in those disbelievers. However, you well know that you can’t go from a short analysis of certain statistical trends above to a statement like this without having someone give you a half dozen anecdotes about ‘saw him good’ and then ‘proving’ that ‘saw him good works’.
Yes, evidently statistical analysis is a useful tool to show a number of secular trends that – all things being more or less equal – will continue to prevail. So math does indeed ‘work’ in that capacity. Of course, the very fact that most of these players you speak of had anomaly years in 2009-10 shows you that math doesn’t always ‘work’ in this sense that it can create predictions which are logical but do not come to fruition.
I’m guessing this is hyperbole to stick needles in those disbelievers.
Mostly, yes. However, given the number of people that didn’t understand regression and anomalies, I thought it fun to do.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Derek – you just used ‘regression’, ‘anomalies’ and ‘fun’ in the same sentence. This is starkly revealing of the culture divide between the ‘advanced stats’ guys and the ‘saw him good’ guys. It’s a battle that can never be won!
Depends what you mean by “won”. If, you mean the battle will probably never end, then I agree.
If you mean one side won’t consistently out-predict the other, well…
I saw David Krejci real good in Game Six and I fearlessly predict he won’t get a hat trick tonight.
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on May 27, 2011 9:05 AM MDT up reply actions
Seeing good, it works.
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on May 29, 2011 10:36 AM MDT up reply actions

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