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CHL Relative +/- and NHL Success

Jonathan Huberdeau is making a late-season push to be drafted with the first overall pick.

We've got an awfully long way to go until the draft, but the debate about who to select with the first overall draft pick is already well underway. The clear-cut favorite at this time is Ryan Nugent-Hopkins of the Red Deer Rebels, but there five other CHL forwards consistently ranked in the draft's top group of players: Sean Couturier, Jonathan Huberdeau, Gabriel Landeskog, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, and Ryan Strome. Despite Nugent-Hopkins' lead with the scouts, there has been some statistical analysis suggesting that some of these other forwards may actually be better. Even strength scoring is a popular one, but today I'm going to talk about "Relative +/-" because one of the young men listed above is having a pretty special season.

Star-divide

Before moving on, I'll need to define what I mean by relative +/-. Quite simply, it's the difference between the forward's regular season +/- ranking and the team's average for forwards who have played at least fifty games (including the forward in question). So, for example, if a team had 10 forwards with an average +/- ranking of +5, and the team leader had a +/- ranking of +20, that player would have a relative +/- of +15. If another player on the team had a +/- ranking of -5, he'd have a relative +/- ranking of -10. Seems pretty simple. So how are the top forwards in this draft class doing? Here are the results:

Rel_pm_1_medium

Sean Couturier is well in front of the pack by this measure, followed by Huberdeau and Landeskog, and then another gap down to Nugent-Hopkins and Strome. Of course, it's hard to know what this means without further context, and so I've taken the liberty of calculating the Relative +/- for each forward drafted in the first round from 1999 through 2006 (thanks to hockeydb.com for the data), sixty-two players in all:

Rel_pm_2_medium

Sean Couturier slides nicely into third place here just behind New York Rangers' superstar Pavel Brendl. Okay, so it's not perfect. Along with Brendl, we have Alex Bourret, and Denis Shvidki up near the top (although they scored a lot too so it's not like this measure was alone in telling us that these guys were players) and a guy by the name of Rick Nash at the bottom who I hear is pretty good. So it's great that Couturier is third, and that Huberdeau and Landeskog are going to slide into the top twelve, but does this statistic actually tell us anything about how well these players will perform in the NHL? Well... a little bit. Here's the Relative +/- (for the regular season in a player's draft year) plotted against NHL points per game (career for regular season, any player without at least 50 NHL GP listed as having zero points per game):

Chl_rpm_medium

Sidney Crosby and Pavel Brendl both look ridiculous on that chart, and Ryan Getzlaf looks out of place too (he's the guy up at 1.00 points per game; as I went through these charts, I could see why he lasted as long as he did in the 2003 draft), but the takeaway for me is that these two variables have a mid-to-low positive correlation (Pearson's r = 0.36). Hooray! I didn't just collect a bunch of useless data! That result makes sense, of course, since both statistics point toward guys who are good at hockey. Still, it's good to see. My next question was, "Okay but how does this correlation compares with tracking goals or points?" Here are the results (for regular season CHL goals and points per game in the player's draft year):

Chl_gpg_medium

Chl_ppg_medium

We again see a positive relationship, and in both instances the relationship is quite a bit stronger, though still not fantastic. Surprisingly, goals per game (Pearson's r = 0.45) is nearly as effective as points per game (Pearson's r = 0.47). Naturally, this made me curious to see how assists per game (in the regular season of the player's draft year) would do:

Chl_apg_medium

The relationship is weaker (Pearson's r = 0.40), which would seem to confirm the conventional wisdom that goals are more valuable than assists since they translate better to the NHL. In other words, if two players have close to the same number of points, but there's a wide discrepancy in the number of goals, the player with the higher number of goals is a bit more likely to work out.

So what does all of this mean for this year's draft? Well, we've seen that Relative +/- is of some use, which is another data point in favor of Sean Couturier. We've also seen that points per game is a more useful indicator, but that goals ought to trump assists. As such, based on the information I have right now, I'd tentatively list the top five forward picks as Couturier - Huberdeau - Strome - Nugent-Hopkins - Landeskog with Couturier and Huberdeau a step ahead of the other three.

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You must be a real fan of Ryan Strome, you have him listed twice in your intro.

by TakeoutArtist on May 2, 2011 12:47 PM MDT reply actions  

1 / I am a fan of Ryan Strome!
2 / Thanks for the heads-up!

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on May 2, 2011 12:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

That is some really interesting work Scott.
Untill recently I did not think Huberdeau was a seroius contender for top 3. But I have come around.
And this has further helped me believe in him. That and the fact that he is younger than the others further helps his cause.
And any statistical study that shows RNH to not be the top prospect gets a thumbs up from me ;)

Success is not a goal..its a byproduct

by SumOil on May 2, 2011 2:07 PM MDT reply actions  

Huh, after all those opportunities you passed up to see RNH in person, you should talk.

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on May 2, 2011 2:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

I was only kidding…
And I knew I would get some response from you.

Success is not a goal..its a byproduct

by SumOil on May 2, 2011 2:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

Haha, yeah, when it comes to scouting “seen him good” seems to trump statistical methods. So I’m not one to talk either, since I’ve only seen one of the main contenders, “good” or otherwise.

I am looking forward to seeing Huberdeau in the Memorial Cup, which one assumes Saint John will be there. He sounds like a pretty appealing prospect.

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on May 2, 2011 2:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it seems pretty clear to me that Nugent-Hopkins isn’t going to be the statistical pick. That said, he may still be the best pick. I’d love to get an answer from some scouts about who they wouldn’t laugh at if taken first overall. Is it eight guys? Four? That kind of consensus marking is important to me.

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on May 2, 2011 2:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

That would be interesting, for sure.

One point in RNH’s favour that doesn’t show up in stats, is that he’s the type of player who will make his whole team smarter. Hard to quantify, but highly valuable IMO.

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on May 2, 2011 2:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don’t follow you here. How is he going to make the guys around him smarter?

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on May 2, 2011 2:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

A rising tide floats all boats.

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on May 2, 2011 3:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

So does Couturier make everyone bigger?

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on May 2, 2011 3:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

Well smartness can be an acquired but size can’t.
a person can learn from a smart person and it can in fact benefit him. A smart person can in fact make others smarter under ideal circumstances.

Success is not a goal..its a byproduct

by SumOil on May 2, 2011 3:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that’s what I mean. A smart classmate can raise the dialogue.

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on May 2, 2011 7:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

But sure, an argument could be made that Couturier makes his team bigger.

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on May 2, 2011 7:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think it was 7 guys…when Mckenzie brought his list.
Yeah i agree..it is something when such a consensus among scouts.
I must say that the numbers are against him. eve if you go by historic scoring

Success is not a goal..its a byproduct

by SumOil on May 2, 2011 2:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

Did he actually say that? I haven’t heard anything like that. I know he mentioned that a couple scouts had Larsson at #1, and RLR has Landeskog #1, so I’m pretty confident there’s at least three, but beyond that I’m not sure. If you have a link to McKenzie saying something though, I’d be very pleased to have it.

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on May 2, 2011 3:05 PM MDT up reply actions  

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/story/?id=361993

It’s 6 and not 7. So I guess a minor mistake. Hall might have had 7 last year that’s why I remember 7 maybe.
and I think he polls NHL scouts and not ones working for a scouting agency if I am not wrong

Success is not a goal..its a byproduct

by SumOil on May 2, 2011 3:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

“At this point, [Nugent-Hopkins, Landeskog, and Larsson] appear to be the only three prospects getting serious consideration to be the first overall selection in the draft.”

That was the big quote for me, although it’s almost a month old now. I wonder if Huberdeau will sneak in there with his big playoff run.

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on May 2, 2011 3:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think in terms of plain rankings, Huberdeau might be/should be able to make the top 3 on his big playoff run.
However I am more than certain that the teams are going to pick on based of their needs/ preference. Unlike last season, it really is hard to set a definite order.

Success is not a goal..its a byproduct

by SumOil on May 2, 2011 3:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

mmmmm – lots of circular graphs…..
How about totting up the points for each prospect aaginst the quality of the opposition.
For example what were their points totals against the top 8 teams, the middle 8, and then the bottom 8.
The better player will surely tot up more points against the better teams, rather than racking them up against the deadweed.
Just a thought.

by edwards_daddy on May 2, 2011 2:11 PM MDT reply actions  

That’a a pretty good idea. My big concern would be about our sample size (i.e. not many games against any one segment), which even with the one full season isn’t very big.

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on May 2, 2011 2:29 PM MDT up reply actions  

I was thinking of doing something like that.
But right now I am working on home road splits.

Success is not a goal..its a byproduct

by SumOil on May 2, 2011 3:32 PM MDT up reply actions  

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