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Taylor Hall - Simply Outstanding

Before the season started, I was one of the voices saying that Taylor Hall ought to be returned to junior. Of course, once the decision to keep him in Edmonton was made, I was also one of the people that was very excited to see Taylor Hall play. He didn't disappoint. Derek showed yesterday that Hall was making those around him better, and  Bruce showed earlier today that Hall is an individual scoring chance machine. After the jump, I'll take a look at the comparables that I chose for Hall before the year, compare his rookie performance to their performance at the same age, and look forward to where Hall fits in for 2010-11.

Star-divide

The comparable players that I identified before the season were Mike Modano, Patrick Marleau, Jason Spezza, Jason Arnott, Petr Nedved, David Legwand, and Stu Barnes. At this point, it's pretty clear that Hall is not Stu "Worst-Case-Scenario" Barnes, so we'll take him off the list and a guy that Bruce suggested in the comments this summer in Rick Nash. I had Marleau as my favorite point of comparison, but Modano dominated the poll when we looked at the numbers in February.

So how is Hall doing? Well, it kind of depends on whether you compare based on age (19-year old seasons), experience (Draft +1 seasons). In the chart below, I've done both (but I've organized it by 19-year old season) and normalized all of the point totals (including any playoff totals) to an 82-game season:

Taylor_hall_1_medium

Even compared to these very good players, Taylor Hall fits right in, which is extremely exciting. It's also exciting that he's improved his standing ever so slightly from our look in February and that he's on the right side of the average. Looking at this list, several of these men are now or have been among the top players on their respective teams, and while none of them was ever in the conversation for the Hart Trophy (unless I'm misremembering one of Mike Modano's seasons), two were key contributors on Stanley Cup winners, and each one has been an impact player for several seasons.

I drew my line in the sand at Patrick Marleau, so it's safe to say that Hall surpassed my expectations offensively. That he did so playing against good opponents while driving the puck in the right direction? Mighty impressive. So what should we expect for next season? Well, let's update the chart for Draft +2 and 20 year-old seasons:

Taylor_hall_2_medium

The average gets skewed down a bit because of the lockout eating Rick Nash's 20-year-old season, but this chart should give us a bit of caution as we look ahead to next season. Some players improved substantially compared to the first chart, but others were in more of a holding pattern. Development comes in fits and starts, and that will be important to remember if Hall "just" repeats his rookie season as a sophomore. I've seen comparisons to Steven Stamkos and his 51-goal, 95-point sophomore season in some places, and while I hope that Hall does something similar, I'd say a fully healthy season that sees Hall score sixty points ought to be considered a success; I'm a bit concerned that it'll be considered a disappointment.

Projection: 25 goals and 60 points as Edmonton's top left-winger in 2011-12.

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Great write-up, Scott. I’m finding the work you guys (and Bruce at CoH) are doing on these articles to be very interesting reading, and I’m looking forward to the rest of the series.

by Ben Johnston on Apr 15, 2011 5:54 PM MDT reply actions  

Thanks! It’s fun to work with the old gang on a coordinated project like this. Got to paddle like hell just to keep up!

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Apr 15, 2011 8:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

I think that is a very reasonable expectation. The biggest things to influence that number wont be so much as what he can do, but who he plays with (and against). If Renny keeps “matching” the way he did this season, who knows what will come about.

Everything thing else aside, at the very least he should be able to match this years rate

Insert Witty Comment Here

by VanillaAcid on Apr 15, 2011 5:54 PM MDT reply actions  

I think most fans understand that there might be progress, but it may not be as substantial as Stamkos. It helps that we have Tavares and Stamkos in recent memory. I’m not going to be disappointed if he’s a 60 point player next season, but I think it’s also quite possible that he explode and become a 80 point player next year.

by David Supina on Apr 15, 2011 6:22 PM MDT reply actions  

Assuming a full season I fully expect 30 goals and 60 points, and agree that more is very possible. Mostly I’m just hoping for good health so he can keep progressing.

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Apr 15, 2011 6:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

I am with you Bruce.

25 goals and 60 points as Edmonton’s top left-winger in 2011-12

while Nhl certainly values goals and assists to be equal, I will be a little disappointed if he doesnt hit 30 goals. If it is a product of terrible percentages, then its ok, but mainting average on ice sh% and a decent sh% he is not in the 28-32 G next season, I will be a little disappointed. If its a 30-30-60 season then no porblemo at all, but a 25-35-60..i hope for better.

In the perfect world, leafs would win the lottery

by SumOil on Apr 15, 2011 7:20 PM MDT up reply actions  

Looking back, this was the right choice, over Seguin. So glad that A. The Sabres have to deal with Seguin instead of Hall and B. The Oil get a great player. Hall can score 30 goals easy next season, the only thing possibly stopping him is injury. Get an enforcer for this team and the injury is less likely.

eh?
Drinking the Pegul-Aid since 2011

by Jcksn22 on Apr 15, 2011 7:10 PM MDT reply actions  

Get an enforcer for this team and the injury is less likely

MacIntyre?
But Hall and Seguin’s rookie season doesnt really prove settle the Hall/seguin debate. Its like saying Oilers should have chosen Skinner as he clearly had more points.
Seguin should have been sent back to junior.

In the perfect world, leafs would win the lottery

by SumOil on Apr 15, 2011 7:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

Get an enforcer for this team and the injury is less likely.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Apr 15, 2011 9:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

The guy is a Sabres fan so I don’t expect him to know the roster all that well… but… the sincerity of his comment combined with the complete ineffectiveness of MacIntyre (or any enforcer) to make any kind of difference is kind of funny.

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on Apr 15, 2011 11:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

Did the Bruins already trade Seguin?

by TakeoutArtist on Apr 16, 2011 7:06 PM MDT up reply actions  

When I think of a comparable John Tavares jumps to mind. As you speculate I am not sure he will flirt with say 70 points like JT did this season. But I agree 60 points would be a good 2nd year.

by oilerdiehard on Apr 15, 2011 11:44 PM MDT reply actions  

Hey Scott, don’t forget that for almost all of the players listed, their 19 year old season was played in an NHL that had higher per game scoring. Check this out: http://www.quanthockey.com/StaticTables/GoalsPerGameData.php

For instance Arnott, the top P getter on the list, played his rookie season where the GPG was 6.484. Adjusting that to last years numbers (5.531) Arnott has ~61 points. In general any comparison with players who played pre-lockout will be favourable to current players since there are simply less points going around.

Another thing to mention is that Stamkos had a lot of success playing with St. Louis, a player already well into his prime who has always had a knack for distributing the puck. I doubt we will see a 50+ goal season from Hall simply because he will not be playing with an elite center next year (barring Wayne Gretzky’s spirit inhabiting Sam Gagner). Without that bona fide elite center, I think a 30-30-60 season should be considered moderately successful. Ideally he would be able to at least flirt with 40 goals.

http://hockeyzen.com - An Oilers blog

by mindmasher on Apr 16, 2011 8:05 AM MDT reply actions  

Yeah, I know era effects aren’t really considered here and that’s a weakness for the comparisons with Arnott, Modano, and Nedved in particular, but I didn’t adjust at the CHL level (where the era effects are likely even more pronounced), so decided to stay consistent and not adjust at the NHL level either. Good point on St. Louis. Hemsky is an awfully good passer, and that should (but might not) help on the power play. Not as sure about evens since they’ll often be on opposite sides of the ice if they even end up playing together.

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on Apr 16, 2011 9:44 AM MDT up reply actions  

He'll score 25 in his sleep

Would have topped 30 this year. 40 is the target next year, easy. Scouts would tell you that.

by TheNaturalMevs on Apr 16, 2011 8:25 PM MDT reply actions  

what a thoughtful and well proven point!

by Bananahammer on Apr 16, 2011 8:33 PM MDT up reply actions  

It's a prediction

Let’s hear yours

http://diamondhoggers.com

by TheNaturalMevs on Apr 16, 2011 8:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

dont say unsubstantiated stuff like “scouts would tell you that”

its faster to type “don’t listen to me”

by Bananahammer on Apr 17, 2011 3:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

Playing with who? Against Toughs? I actually think he’s already a better ES player than Stamkos, but he needs help.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Apr 16, 2011 8:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

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