An Open Letter to Steve Tambellini Regarding Dustin Penner
Dear Tambicakes,
Just how stupid are you?
That about sums it up, but it would be a pretty short article if that was all I said and as you know I abhor being concise. I mean, it's obvious you're a devoted Copper & Blue reader. You read my article from December saying don't trade Ales Friggin' Hemsky and sure enough, you didn't trade Ales Hemsky. Kudos. But I wonder if you took the right lesson from that article.
My thesis was not "keep Ales because he's spent his whole career with the Oilers" (although he has), nor "don't trade Ales because he's a dreamboat" (although he is). My main points were that Hemsky was young enough to help this team contribute four or five years down the line, signed to an expensive but reasonable contract, unlikely to snare major assets in a trade, a happy guy who enjoys the city and should be willing to re-sign if the management is even faintly doing its job, and of course that Ales is an undeniably excellent player as opposed to a shitty player who might be excellent someday if we're lucky like, I dunno, Colten Teubert or a late first-round pick in the 2011 draft. That's like taking a million dollars and buying two lottery tickets because, hell, they might be worth something someday. Except that if you did win the lottery, you'd spend the winnings on yet more lottery tickets.
You obviously read that article, nodded along, moved Ales Hemsky's name from "Trade" to "Evaluate", and then completely failed to heed the lessons because you then traded Dustin Penner, a guy who this team needs for the exact same reasons it needs Ales Hemsky, in exchange for jack and shit.
So I don't know why I'm writing to you now; your reading comprehension skills obviously aren't the best. Call it venting, I guess. Derek Zona took care of the logic; I'll take care of the emotion. Steve Tambellini, this was stupid as balls and I'm going to let you know about it even if I'm just shouting into the void.
I'm not going to say Dustin Penner was perfect. Yes, Dustin was fat. Wayne Gretzky was short, but he did okay. Penner was big but not a hitter, seldom looked like he was trying all that hard, didn't have the mean streak you associate with a power forward; basically he was Frank Mahovlich. He got results, Tambo. You don't have many players who fit that bill. He also, by all accounts, fit in great in Edmonton. He got along with his teammates, he was active in the community, he did everything you could ask a player to do off the ice. Anybody saying that Penner "wanted to leave" for reasons other than your hockey team being so shit Dustin wouldn't get a chance at the playoffs until you died is making an awfully risky assertion.
Tambo-lina, I'm going to say something so obvious everybody except you seems to take it as a given. To have a good hockey team, you need good hockey players. Dustin Penner is a good hockey player. You traded him for Colten Teubert, who is not a good hockey player. He is so not good he couldn't get past Davis Drewiske and Peter Harrold on the Los Angeles Kings depth chart. And, not to pick on the guy, but who the fuck is Davis Drewiske? That's not an NHL defenseman, that's a Red Green Show character! He's -1 and has no goals on a team that's one of the favourites for the Western Conference title, and he's kicking Colten Teubert's ass. Teubert was ninth on his team in scoring among defensemen, and that team is the Manchester Monarchs of the AHL. Do you know who's ninth among Oklahoma City Barons defensemen in scoring? Of course you don't. It's Jake Taylor. Tits up!
Now, you may say that Teubert has wheels and a mean streak, that's he's a defensively oriented defenseman, and other such inanities designed to cover up the fact that this guy has the offensive instincts of a young Jason Strudwick. (Coincidentally, 27-year-old Jake Taylor has all those things as well and has played zero NHL games). A defensive specialist who doesn't get time on the penalty kill, who's been a healthy scratch for his AHL team, who's already played 18 games in the ECHL (or as I prefer to call it the "Thanks for Trying Hockey League"). This is a 20-year-old Cory Cross. You traded our second-best player for Cory Cross. Go eat a box of shit. We also got a mid-late first-rounder and another pick, which I'd have a lot more confidence in if you weren't going to be responsible for the players we drafted.
And, of course, you're going to wind up trading Ales Hemsky anyway. Do you know how I know that? Because we're not going to make the playoffs in 2011-12 now, obviously, and although Hemsky is the consummate team player and loves Edmonton as much as anybody paid to live there, he's also 27 years old and coming through his eighth NHL season. He's already got enough miles on his frame that injuries are becoming more and more of a problem. It won't be long before he's on the wrong end of thirty and in Doug Weight territory desperately seeking a contender to cling on to so he can get his Cup on his way out of the league.
And you could have kept him anyway. Tambi-poo, did you know we had fifteen million dollars in projected cap space for next season before you traded Dustin Penner? And no key free agents to re-sign (no, Jean-Francois Jacques and Andrew Cogliano are not key free agents no matter how much you want them to be). If you could have taken smart pills long enough to stash Nikolai Khabibulin's drink-sodden ass in the minors and run Dubnyk/some Gerber-esque discount veteran at $500,000 in goal, you could have signed an entire third line, three new defensemen, and still had enough cap room left to trade some of those bargaining chips we've piled up for a decent second-line centre. Holy fuck, suddenly we're in the playoffs and Hemmer is practically sleeping outside your office waiting for a contract extension with this promising, playoff-bound team built for the long-term. I don't want to over-sell this, but don't you see how easy this would be? Sign all those free agents for one or two years and replace them with kids as they come up through the system. Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle, despite all your best efforts to sabotage them, are obviously pretty good players to build around. You could have been looking at a Cup run for 2013-14, provided you didn't do something completely insane like throw away the few first-class players you already have in exchange for a potato sack full of pig shit.
Nope. You blew the last two seasons and now you've blown the next two as well. You are an enormous, fetid lump of stupidity, like scientists found away to distill pure awfulness into a solid and then molded it into the shape of a man, a shambling, mindless Frankenstein's monster who stumbled around and was capable only of hideous vocalizations, almost but not quite human, about "rebuilds" and "competing" and "the future". Mike Milbury can sleep a little more soundly in his bed tonight knowing that he is now only the second-worst general manager in NHL history. If Jason Strudwick wants to redeem himself in the eyes of Oilers fans, he will throw you from the press box like Darth Vader hurling the Emperor into a bottomless pit. You must go so we can be free.
FFS,
Benjamin Massey
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Khabibulin’s contract counts against the cap no matter what, so a smidgen of this anger is misplaced.
Except Tambo signed him to that gem of a contract.
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If they need any help dealing with Re-Khab, they can always just remember- hey, at least he’s not Brian Rolston.
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by Kevin Sellathamby on Mar 2, 2011 11:53 AM MST up reply actions
No he’s fucking worse.
At least you can put Rolston on the 4th line and get some sort of value out of his contract. You put Khabibulin on the ice and 80% of the time it actually reduces the value of his deal because he’s so terrible.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
I thought it counted if he retired but not if we buried him. I have, however, been known to be wrong.
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by Benjamin Massey on Mar 2, 2011 1:07 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
You are, in this case. The only ways the cap doesn’t count against us is if we trade him, waive him or if he winds up on the LTIR.
by sarcasticidealist on Mar 2, 2011 1:55 PM MST up reply actions
It’s a 35+ contract, so his salary stays on the cap even if he is placed on and clears waivers as was the case with Rolston. The only hope for cap relief is to trade him, LTIR, or re-entry waivers (50% remains on the Oilers cap). Not 100% sure if a buyout would reduce the hit.
Yeah, sorry, I meant if we waived him and he was claimed.
by sarcasticidealist on Mar 2, 2011 2:30 PM MST up reply actions
I was a tad nit picky. Can’t imagine a scenario where anyone claims him on waivers.
/wraps self in Oilers’ snuggie
//cries self to sleep
by Geeezeus on Mar 2, 2011 2:37 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Buyout doesn’t work either.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
if i know anything about prison, and i don’t, it’s that it shouldn’t cost much to have him LTIR’d.
by Passive Voice on Mar 2, 2011 8:48 PM MST up reply actions
You’re pretty angry for a fan of a team that’s guaranteed a Stanley Cup because of Taylor Hall, RNH, and your 2012 1st overall pick.
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I dig hating on the EDM-rebuild-media-lovefest, but damn. Something about finding schadenfreude now seems like kicking them while they’re down.
This is where a witty signature might go.
This is where a witty signature might go on drugs.
Well, they are only kind of down relative to the rest of the league. Not us. We’re kicking sideways-ish.
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Oh, I just meant we should give them like a week of time for the postpartum depression dePenner.
This is where a witty signature might go.
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Overblown
1) Tambo probably doesnt read these articles
2) Mahavolich > Penner. Penner’s dominance only shows up in the underlying stats. Watch him play enough games and its apparent quickly.
I don’t like the trade either. There is no need to suck next year but maybe they felt 5 million was better spent on a center not a #2 LW. I wouldn’t put money on them spending cap space wisely but thats another topic. Again I dont like the trade either but this is an overeaction.
The Penner-Mahovlich comparison is in terms of the irrational hatred fans have because they think he’s lazy when he’s really just tall.
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by PPP on Mar 2, 2011 1:33 PM MST up reply actions
Big/Skill guys who don’t look like they’re busting their ass get a whole lot of grief.
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Mar 2, 2011 2:13 PM MST up reply actions
Penner’s dominance only shows up in the underlying stats.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Don’t bring those fancy esoteric stats into this. Do you even watch the games?
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Mar 2, 2011 2:46 PM MST up reply actions
1) Tambo probably doesnt read these articles
I can’t stop giggling at this after reading the whole comment. I assumed you were joking originally, but then the rest seemed serious. Do you think Ben believes Tambellini is going to read this?
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by Scott Reynolds on Mar 2, 2011 3:08 PM MST up reply actions
Yeah the first on was a joke, but I’m mostly just string the pot in response to a pot stirring article.
Penner is only Mahovlich because he was big and a coaches whipping boy – much like many other average players except Penner is a decent one. But he isnt the dominating force Mahovlich was. He rarely dominates games and plays a position where the Oilers actually have some depth. Sure he could be a good 5 million dollar player on the 2nd line of a very good NHL team but I think a winner is gonna spend that money on the center position. When Anaheim won the cup, Penner was a much better bargain. Until a team like Washington or Calgary win the cup I will always put my money on the Penguins (when healthy) Flyers and Hawks. Its something Vancouver has addressed nicely. At the same time, the Oilers traded a decent player (something they are in dire need of) for 3 assets who might become players one day. Our scouting staff has improved greatly since the Pronger/Smyth trade so we should expect a better return but I doubt we win this trade. I would have much rather had a more ready NHL prospect.
The Oilers had almost $9mil in cap space for next year with Penner.
And that’s not factoring in any sort of increase.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
Cause the free agents are lining up to play in Edmonton? Or are we gonna spend all 9 million on a player like Hossa?
If you look big picture and trying to build a winner, the move isnt completely as ridiculous as the article suggests (and I dont like the move). Our center depth is Horcoff, Gagner and Cogliano. Surrounded by talent, that might make the playoffs.
Good players want to play with good players. Actually keeping your good players on your club helps attract other good players.
Yes, I know this is a strange concept to most Edmontonians
I’m not sure where I said otherwise. Lets pretend I did and I still fail to see many good free agent signings made during Penner’s time here.
Again, I don’t like the trade (I woulda kept Penner). All I’m saying is the reaction is overblown. This team will likely have a rapid acceleration in the next couple years. Thats when adding pieces should be easier. Not because of Penner (a decent player) but because of Hall (a dominant one). The Oilers need to address the center position and another bullet for MBS helps. There is work to do.
I still fail to see many good free agent signings made during Penner’s time here.
Because Tambo stinks. That’s why.
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by PPP on Mar 2, 2011 5:35 PM MST up reply actions
No worse than Burke ;)
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Cause the free agents are lining up to play in Edmonton? bq.
What else were you refering to with this comment then? You didn’t see good free agents come here, because, even with Penner, the team sucks. Keeping as many good players, on value contracts, helps intice more though. Not sure how you can deny that.
his point is also that edmonton is one of the least attractive free agent destinations and that any oiler team plan shouldn’t be to sign a grip of guys in order to compete immediately. it’s not one of the least attractive destinations just because the team stinks.
Still wouldn’t make the playoffs with Penner unless they can do something substatial to upgrade Cogs IMO
Which is tough…
Calgary has been looking for a center for Iggy for the better part of a decade. How many of Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Eric Staal, Getzlaf, Backstrom, Sedin, Kesler, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Koivu, Richards, Toews, Sharp, Thorton, Pavelski, Kopitar were drafted by their club?
Looking forward, assuming Taylor Hall is your #1LW does it make sense to pay Penner north of 4.25 to play #2LW?
Maybe its the optimist in me searching for positives. But if we all agree with Ben then we’re puppets :)
PS I woulda kept Penner too (once again)
PSS As it stands, I draft Larsson. Hence my concern at center.
So now they have to upgrade Cogliano AND replace Penner.
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by PPP on Mar 2, 2011 5:36 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
“We’re not making the playoffs…I’ve got it! We’ll get worse!”
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Except they were trying to win when they did that, which is why they spent to the cap.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
by dawgbone98 on Mar 2, 2011 5:47 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
If the free agents aren’t lining up, all the more reason to keep Penner. Fun making arguments against your own position?
This team will likely have a rapid acceleration in the next couple years.
Not when adding low first round picks and prospects who may be ready in 3-5 years, rather than keeping one of the top forwards in the league…
by rsm on Mar 2, 2011 4:58 PM MST up reply actions
Tell that to Chi, Pitts, Was, Tam
I’m not sure how many times I have to say “Again, I don’t like the trade (I woulda kept Penner). All I’m saying is the reaction is overblown.”
What about Atl, Clb, NYI, Fla?
Throwing all your quality away for potential doesn’t mean potential is going to live up to it’s lofty namesake.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
And don’t take my word for it.
Look at recent Oiler trade history (last 10 years) and see how often a trade has worked out where the Oilers have traded an established NHL player for picks and prospects.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
So the key is to have an owner willing to spend when its time, have sequential top 2 picks (except in Atlantas case) and dont f**k the pick up?
The Oilers nailed the first pick (Hall) and need to get the next one right. Katz should be willing to spend when its time and has invested heavily in the farm and player development. I think the Oilers are on the right track with or without Dustin Penner. And I woulda kept him.
I am not sure they are on the right track, but I agree with you in part. Keeping or trading Penner doesn’t make or break this organization. I wouldn’t have traded him for that return. I would rather have had quality over quantity and in the NHL or NHL ready rather than ‘sometime, if ever’.
But Tambi has a responsbility to make this team competitive starting this summer. Wrote my post, “Time to stop the bleeding” on it.
This CANNOT continue. If tambi is not aggressive with shoring up the D and 3rd line/PK this summer, this organization is in deep deep trouble. Losing is a cancer and at some point you lose the patient if you don’t treat it aggressively enough. This summer is HUGE for this organization. Make or break in many ways.
While I agree the article was an over-reaction, I am not sure the lack of faith in Tambi was misplaced. By July 10, we will know.
my favourite part
was the “probably” hedge :D
by Passive Voice on Mar 2, 2011 8:49 PM MST up reply actions
I’d be surprised if no one in the Oilers management reads this. Probably not Tambo, though. It would be silly to ignore a blog like Copper and Blue.
On second thought, maybe my expectations are too high.
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by red army line on Mar 3, 2011 12:21 AM MST up reply actions
Note:
Colten Teubert played 18 games total in the ECHL at the end of his last two WHL seasons. He did NOT spend time in the ECHL this year, his first full year as pro. So your ECHL shot is unfair.
I don’t agree with the Penner decision. I would have made a different choice. But Tambellini looked three years out and saw his LW depth chart as Hall, Paajarvi, Hamilton, and Hartikainen, and decided that Penner did not fit in his medium term plan in terms of personnel and salary, and decided to trade him for assets that could be part of the depth chart in three years.
Right, cuz those four guys are going to stay 100% healthy have have absolutely NO need for veteran leadership. Sound logic there.
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by Mike @ MHH on Mar 2, 2011 12:35 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
That’s not sound logic, but neither is your retort a reason to keep Dustin Penner.
by Triumph44 on Mar 2, 2011 12:54 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
No but trading a valuable winger for nothing in the outright HOPE that the 4 guys you listed will all work out and be 100% effective is not. The Avs right now are icing guys like Kevin Porter and Ryan Stoa because they’ve dealt wing depth away for marginal returns (largely due to injury, but still) and haven’t added any depth at a position they were weak in BEFORE trades and injury. I see Edmonton being in step one of that process whereas Colorado is likely at step 2.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
that’s not what’s being said, though, not exactly.
hall and paajarvi are likely going to be the top 2 LWs on the oilers going forward. maybe the oilers could sign a 3rd line LW to help things out. but he was not traded for ‘nothing’, nor is it easy to get more than ‘nothing’ for such a player.
There’s not enough room on this team for 3 quality LW, especially at their current cap hits?
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
Do you know what would have helped alleviate that?
Not starting the ELC’s of the other 2 LW right now.
Besides, if Washington can spend $17.5 mil on their top 3 LW why can’t Edmonton do something similar?
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
I dunno, will Edmonton move one or more of those LWs to RW (Semin plays 2RW)? Hall to C?
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"Numbers don't lie, they just don't agree with you"--George E. Ays
If I reference a lot of stats, just assume I haven't seen anything to contradict or invalidate them.
by red army line on Mar 3, 2011 12:23 AM MST up reply actions
i’m not talking in fiduciary teams, i’m speaking in terms of ice time. there’s not enough for those three guys to play the same position in 2012-13, regardless of when ELCs were started.
Why not?
It’s a 60 minute game, you can play all 3 guys 15-17 minutes per night.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
that’s very difficult to do, and not particularly sensible given that hall + his comps generally play 18-20 minutes a night.
The Oilers have an awful history of trading useful players for futures and never being able to replace them from within the system.
Hamilton looks great in the CHL, but it’s a long way from the NHL. Guys like Trukhno and Cornet looked like pretty good options too.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
So why wasn’t Teubert in the AHL? Other guys who played in the AHL at the end of their junior seasons: Jordan Eberle.
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by Benjamin Massey on Mar 2, 2011 1:33 PM MST up reply actions
…you didn’t do something completely insane like throw away the few first-class players you already have in exchange for a potato sack full of pig shit.
I’m going to save this for next season and send it to Greg Sherman when Liles and Stastny are dealt for Jason Arnott and a 3rd round pick.
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by One_Roy_Save_On_The_Calendar on Mar 2, 2011 12:42 PM MST reply actions
Pure genius.
I think Ben really is hoping that someone will euthanize Khabibulin’s hockey career at some point.
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by George E. Ays on Mar 2, 2011 1:56 PM MST up reply actions
Of course a team is more than a man, but trading one of the top scoring wingers in the league for a player that might work out a few years down the road (plus magic beans) is not going to help. It’s also a clear signal from management that they have no interest in building a contending team anytime in the next five years. Hemsky will be on the block next.
His absence will be a big reason they won’t.
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by PPP on Mar 2, 2011 2:43 PM MST up reply actions
I’m not to happy about the trade, but when I look at a player like Penner, which show up to play about 50% of the time, I wonder. If Messier was on this team he would of slammed Penner against the wall and told him to shape up or ship out. Since we had nobody on the team that is willing to lead the team he was allowed to get away with it.
It seems some Bloggers blog just so they can bitch and complain about some thing, even if ST made a good trade they would still be bitching.
I don’t buy the “Penner is lazy” meme, but let’s pretend it’s correct. So what? What matters is the results he put up, and the results he put up fully justified his contract. Accordingly, he helped the team win, and he did so in a measure that justified his contract. As long as he does that, he’s a valuable asset.
I can see how it might be frustrating to watch him if you think he’s lazy (and I re-emphasize that I think no such thing), but so what? Once you have a player, the only things that matter are results put up and cost (cap hit and money, assuming that the latter is an issue for ownership).
(You could always try to argue that his alleged laziness suppressed other players’ results, by encouraging them to be lazy, but there’s so little support for that notion that I’m going to ignore it.)
And to your last point, Tambellini has made a number of good trades: Staios, Grebeshkov, Visnovsky/Whitney, and even Fraser (though not in hindsight) looked good to me. This one doesn’t.
by sarcasticidealist on Mar 2, 2011 3:07 PM MST up reply actions
Messier was a beast, he never mailed in a performance.
You know, except for all the time. People remember playoff Mark Messier or games against Calgary Mark Messier.
They seem to ignore the Mark Messier who coasted through games the Oilers would lose by 5 or 6 goals.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
by dawgbone98 on Mar 2, 2011 3:24 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
It seems some Bloggers blog just so they can bitch and complain about some thing, even if ST made a good trade they would still be bitching.
Problem with that theory is that you’d need to see Tambo make a good trade first in order to find out if you’re right.
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by PPP on Mar 2, 2011 5:38 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
In fairness… Teubert might end up being a good player.. he did play for Team Canada at the World Juniors and was a first round pick. Those are 2 good things to put on a resume for sure. Otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly and ‘eat a box of shit’ was priceless. Still, we’re running Teubert out of town before he gets here… actually, it reminds me of the exact same reception Penner got after signing…
Haha great point, how about everyone just takes a breath and sees how this plays out of that pick is packaged and we move up no one will complain, if we sign some free agents no one will complain, this team shipped out guys last year and this year didn;t bring anyone in other then rookies they were not built to compete, lets take our #1 pick and go into the summer and build a decent hockey team, we have the young talent now just fill some holes, if MPS has a good summer of training he could replace DP at the the 2LW and no one will complain.
The problem is you don’t make this trade if you have the intention of signing a replacement via free agency.
You make this trade because you are looking to be a shit team again next year.
I like Pajaarvi. I like his game, I like his decision making and I like his skills. But he’s a long way away from replacing Penner. There’s a big step for having a good 2 way game for a rookie and having a good 2 way game for a top line NHLer.
The difference between shipping out guys last year and trading Penner this year is they didn’t give away quality players last year. If the Oilers traded Fraser away at the deadline no one would complain.
Why on earth would you view a trade like this and think that this team is going to go into the summer and build a decent hockey team? You don’t get worse and immediately try and become better.
You get worse off when you have no intentions of getting better in the immediate future.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
It’s a sad commentary on the intelligence of a lot of fans that I have no idea whether you’re taking the piss.
by sarcasticidealist on Mar 2, 2011 7:03 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t care if a player literally puts a la-z-boy on the bench and takes naps between shifts, if he’s driving play and giving you 25+ goals and 60+ points on top of it, he’s a good player.
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by George E. Ays on Mar 2, 2011 9:23 PM MST up reply actions 4 recs
There is NO ROOM for logic on the intrawebs.
If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!
by Mike @ MHH on Mar 3, 2011 9:06 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah but that guy said he was lazy and I’m sure he knows him first hand and is at all the practices and workouts and pre-games so clearly he must be a trusted advisor to the team.
R.I.Pacific Penner
by Joe Girth on Mar 3, 2011 10:59 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
One step too far:
“Mike Milbury can sleep a little more soundly in his bed tonight knowing that he is now only the second-worst general manager in NHL history.”
Whoa! Slow down there…
Can't Make a Deal - Your host Steve-O
I think Steve-O is a shit house deal maker. He doesn’t seem to me to have the ear of or cred with enough GM’s. I think he should be measured against what the best GM’s do – the Oilers deserve a really good GM right?
There are a lot of teams that need and want a huge high point getting LW which Penner is. Even if the return at the moment was decent, there was no need to rush into this deadline deal at all. There was still a lot of time to move Penner. At some point the boys in Florida, Long Island, Ottawa and elsewhere need to ice a palatable product because they have to. They are under financial pressure and have dwindling attendance, unlike the Oil, and have to meet the floor.
Penner is a cheap and effective fill in for a top line elite LW for a hurting team. I know a deal could have been done for an NHL player or much better draft pick – why? Because Chiarelli can do it – he got Horton + out of Florida for Wideman and picks. Yes the Panther’s GM has changed , but these deals are out there for the guys good at their jobs – we saw hockey trades this deadline, and will see more on the draft floor.
We watch as cap limited teams make trades that improve them and build contenders, not all done through the draft with golden horseshoes up their butts.
But that would take strategy, patience and the ear of colleagues, none of which the dual headed monster posing as Tambellini seems to have.
by hugo agogo on Mar 2, 2011 8:26 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
It seems that Coppernblue is now completely proof against opinions that run contrary to the editorial opinion…
http://hockeyzen.com - An Oilers blog
Copper & Blue is against open trolling, like scrolling through a comments section and responding to a single poster with the same “Leafs suck” one-line post five times.
Copper & Blue is also against people who’ve been warned about trolling coming back and questioning Copper & Blue’s moderation.
mindmasher is now completely proof against following instructions.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
by Derek Zona on Mar 2, 2011 11:52 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
Leafs do suck, though.
Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.
by Benjamin Massey on Mar 3, 2011 12:06 PM MST up reply actions
Oh no doubt. However, using that and only that as a response to five different posts is pretty much the definition of trolling.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
There’s a difference between groupthink bias and being convinced by sound arguments in posts.
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by red army line on Mar 3, 2011 12:26 AM MST up reply actions
Sound arguments in posts?
Oh you mean like ‘Tambellini sucks?’ – regardless if that’s the editorial opinion, it’s hardly being explained to any length by PPP
http://hockeyzen.com - An Oilers blog
It’s part of an ongoing dialogue, the general thrust of which is that Tambellini sucks.
by sarcasticidealist on Mar 3, 2011 1:28 AM MST up reply actions
Jack and Shit
I realize that this was an emotional outburst, but you lose credibility when you call a first round draft pick (even a late one) either Jack or Shit.
The return on the trade is good value. There is a solid argument to be made about targeting a different type of return, but I don’t think arguments about ‘jack and shit’ or ‘magic beans’ give appropriate value for what first and even third round picks have been traded for in the past. Penner’s deal was for 101 more games. After that he is free to play wherever he can get the best deal.
A late first-round pick is about a 50-50 chance at a useful player and a 10% (maybe) of a player as useful as Dustin Penner. Shit just called, he asked if you’ve seen his brother anywhere.
Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.
by Benjamin Massey on Mar 3, 2011 9:36 AM MST up reply actions 3 recs
What? Only 101 more games in his contract?
Well then, I’m glad we ditched Penner when we could. Tambellini still sucks for not getting rid of him earlier though, say around the 160 games left mark. We would have been screwed going into this summer with his “boat anchor” contract. I mean, the guy was borderline useless as it was, right?
*Slaps self upside the head
Call it venting, I guess. Derek Zona took care of the logic; I’ll take care of the emotion.
I thought that was pretty clear.
R.I.Pacific Penner
by Joe Girth on Mar 3, 2011 11:08 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
appropriate value for what first and even third round picks have been traded for in the past.
This is an extremely subjective issue. the price for a player is not set in stone. What was done in the past will not necessarily continue. some examples:
people learn from mistakes. Keith Tkuchuk was traded fro 1st,2nd,3rd and 4th rounder for 2 months of play.
Some one was given a 3 years 27 million contract…some Holik guy
closing in on 7000
As a Kings fan I’m happy with the trade, even though Dean Lombardi gave up more than “jack” and “shit”. By now everyone in the league knows how the Kings play. Penner is the best fit available for my team. I wish we had blog sites as open as this one. By the time I got to “Go eat a box of shit” I was laughing so hard I thought I was gonna throw up.
But don’t underestimate Teubert. He came a long way to get where he is now. No one can make guarantees, but he’s got a terrific upside.
Is this the hockey gods telling Tambellini he messed up?
Plexiglass falls on Tambellini in Philly:
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Edmonton/2011/03/07/17526901.html

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