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CHL Update - It's Time To Consider Two Top Ten Picks For The Oilers

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This is Tyler Pitlick. He was considered to be a 1st round talent, but fell to the Oilers at 31st overall. People who watched Oil change 1.0 will recall that the scouts were high on Pitlick but the consensus was that he may not be able to last till the second round. He was enjoying a fine season with the Medicine Hat Tigers before an ankle injury took him for the season. I was looking forward to seeing him play in the WHL playoffs, however, I don't think this will affect his development.  Management shouldn't be bothered by his injury. Steve Tambellini remarked that he views Pitlick as a 2nd or 3rd line center in the NHL.

That episode of Oil change was very interesting. It was clear to the scouts and the management that Curtis Hamilton and Martin Marincin will be the two prospects selected in the second round. However, availability of Pitlick forced Oilers to alter their plans. I am very confident the Riley Nash trade can be attributed to Marincin and Hamilton being available at #46 spot in the draft. Another interesting thing I noted was that the management was working very hard to get another 1st round pick, specially a top 10 pick, in order to draft another impact player. I think this is one of the reasons that Dustin Penner was traded. In my opinion, Steve Tambellini went in this trade deadline to arm himself with another 1st round draft pick and Penner gave him that chance. I dont think he is done yet either. I expect the Oilers to be very active at the draft and try and get into the top 10 selection. And if the Penner trade is any indication, we will not like the deals that Tambellini will make at the draft. However, I am now slowly getting convinced that he finally has a plan and he doesn't care about its popularity.

That said, I am an easily excitable person and I am excited about next draft and possibilities that exist. I think that we should now start to look at players ranked somewhere between 8th and 15th as that is going to be our second pick in the draft after the trade is completed. Some of the names that come to mind are Joel Armia, Mark McNiell, Dougie Hamilton, Brandon Saad. Steve Tambellini has stated that they will be picking by position, and I think it extends to both picks. For me, the best case scenario is Adam Larsson and then Ryan Strome / Jonathan Huberdeau, if Tambellini is able to move up in the draft. If a status quo is maintained, then look at Larsson and then McNeill or Saad.

After the jump we will look at the situational scoring for some players in the CHL. These are the year to date totals as of March 8th 2011. The situational scoring between the updates is posted as fan posts for reference purposes.

Star-divide

As usual, ZPG is Zero point games. Players in black are draft prospects for the upcoming draft. Players in copper are Oilers prospects. Players in red are first round draft picks from the previous draft and those in blue were drafted in 2009.

Ohl_7_march_medium

Whl_7_mar_medium

Some Thoughts:

  • The race to first overall keeps getting closer every fortnight. After an ultra-hot January, Ryan Hopkins has cooled off, while Sean Couturier has continued his dominance over the QMJHL. However, he keeps sliding down the rankings and recently was as low as 6th in Craig Button's rankings on TSN. Its no secret that I dont agree with his rankings especially the top 15. Gabriel Landeskog is also having some troubles maintaining the scoring pace from earlier in the season.Furthermore, since Tambellini stated that they will be drafting based on position, I am inclined to believe that he is out of the race for an Edmonton draft pick. However if past drafts are any indication, people remember and value a hot finish more than a hot start. I've written before that we should start talking about Ryan Strome as a candidate for the 1st overall position. He has come back from a minor injury and has slowed down even a bit.
  • The Oilers have always been interested in Ryan Johansen. They desperately tried to land another top 5 pick so as to be able to draft him. In fact one of the scouts felt that Johansen could have been a top 3 pick had there been a few extra weeks in the WHL season. Even at the trade deadline, he was rumored to be the asking price for Hemsky. The reason I bring him up is because he is having an amazing season the WHL. He started off slowly, as it is often the case with players sent back from NHL training camp, but he has been lighting it up after the World Junior Championships. He will be an ideal candidate for the top-line center that the Oilers have been missing. Everything about him screams Ryan Getzlaf to me and I will be surprised if he doesnt end up having a similar career.
  • I wanted to talk about Keegan Lowe. He is Kevin Lowe's son and is playing defense for Edmonton Oil Kings. At 6'1 and 174 lbs, he is not overly big and I see him more of prospect in the 50-100 range. As luck would have it, Bruce talked about him today in an earlier post and I can't give a better description. This is what he said:

    The Oil Kings have scored 235 goals and allowed 235; Mark Pysyk is +31 and Keegan Lowe +32. One of the guys connected with the organization told me the Pysyk/Lowe pairing have been logging the tough minutes – "watch them shut down Schenn tonight" were his exact words – and sure enough they did play a lot against Schenn & Hamilton that night. (Lots of tough minutes to go around when playing the Blades, of course.) They ended up -1 on the night, and Lowe took the critical penalty when he really decked Schenn with a heavy cross check in the late going, but suffice to say he’s not one to back down and that’s mostly a good thing.

  • I had mentioned last week that I will posting % contribution of each player towards goals scored by his team. I am almost done and look for it to be posted in the next couple of days. We will discuss the draft eligible prospects in more detail in that post.

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Still no love for RNH, Sum? I think a Mark McNeil, RNH combo is better than Larsson/Strome (because it’s high on the improbability scale – unless of course we start talking about throwing in Hemsky or another piece). The kid is a lot better than people give him credit for. Contributing to 40% of the teams offense is nothing to scoff at.

by AdR23 on Mar 10, 2011 11:43 AM MST reply actions  

its not about love. I am not overly impressed by his numbers. I know he has had a high contribution to his team’s offense, but trust me he is not alone in that regard.

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 10, 2011 12:02 PM MST up reply actions  

I dont think we will end up taking two prospects of the same position, until someone really falls off. Its just a gut feeling, nothing more.
About the kid being better than people give him credit, its been said a lot. But until Stu actually picks him up, he is not first choice or even the 4th one for that matter. I realize that Red Deer is a defensive club, but his ES scoring just doesnt compare to some others in the draft. That said, its improved a lot over the past few weeks.

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 10, 2011 12:05 PM MST up reply actions  

I dont think we will end up taking two prospects of the same position

The Oilers past history with two first round picks has been to select players of different positions, with one somewhat-exception:

1991: 12. Tyler Wright, C ; 20. Martin Rucinsky, LW
1993: 7. Jason Arnott, C ; 16. Nick Stajduhar, D
1994: 4. Jason Bonsignore, C ; 6. Ryan Smyth, LW
1996: 6. Boyd Devereaux, C ; 19. Matthieu Descoteaux, D
2004: 14. Devan Dubnyk, G ; 25. Rob Schremp, C
2007: 6. Sam Gagner, C ; 15. Alex Plante, D ; 21. Riley Nash, C

So the year Oilers had three first rounders, they took two centres sandwiching a defender. In three cases they went F → D in that order, and in the first two of those the defender was an epic fail; believe it or not, Plante (7) has already played as many games as Descoteaux (5) and Stajduhar (2) combined.

All of which organizational history probably has the statistical significance of the mean square root of fuckall in 2011.

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Mar 10, 2011 1:47 PM MST up reply actions  

RNH

I will be ropeable if they pick a centre as small as RNH, who at his age, height and weight I think will be lucky to hit 190lbs.

Unless he is going to score like Crosby (he won’t) absolutely no thanks. I would bet he loses the most scoring out of the top centres at the NHL level because he is so sleight.

His EV scoring suggests he doesn’t handle traffic well in the dub, it’s not going to be easier for him at the highest level.

Physical contact sports reward good, bigger, fast players.

by FastOil on Mar 11, 2011 9:38 AM MST up reply actions  

I think context is critical. Red Deer is a very defensive team, their 150 GA is 29 better than the second place team (which has played one fewer game as well) so pretty much half a goal per game better than the best of the rest. RNH has contributed not only to his percentage of the team’s offensive output, but he has excelled in the defensive environment while doing so, and has demonstrated some pretty good defensive chops in the process. He doesn’t cheat for offence, doesn’t cough up the puck with high-risk plays like some of those Saskatoon snipers do.

Speaking of Saskatoon, there is an interesting difference between the Blades and the Rebels. Saskatoon has already clinched first overall, they’re 11 points up with 5 to play. However the Rebels have a better goal differential and Much better goal ratio.

Saskatoon 293 GF, 203 GA = +90 GD = 1.44 GR
Red Deer 250 GF, 150 GA = +100 GD = 1.67 GR

So which is really the better team? I don’t know what the overall distribution is, but let’s just say when it comes to playoff pools I value GF/GA data at least equally to the standings, probably more since the bogus bonus point was introduced, and I’ve done alright. Who would you pick in a best-of-seven between the Rebels and Blades?

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Mar 10, 2011 3:09 PM MST up reply actions  

Bruce one of the things that make Red Deer so special is the goalie stats.
Steve Kampfer’s stats are just amazing

http://whl.ca/stats/show/type/top_goalies/ls_season/236/subtype/1

his sv% is .014 points higher than the second guy and .030 points higher than Saskatoon goalie. So how much of that is defensive talent , goalie talent and percentages, we will never know. So while their GD and GR are better, I will pick Saskatoon based on their scoring depth.
If things go according to standings, the medicine hat/ Red deer series will be very interesting to watch. Medicin Hat has superior scoring depth too and a pretty good goalie.

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 10, 2011 9:52 PM MST up reply actions  

Steve Kampfer’s stats are just amazing

Who’s Steve Kampfer? Darcy Keumper plays goal in Red Deer…

by AdR23 on Mar 11, 2011 12:56 AM MST up reply actions  

Who’s Steve Kampfer?

Bruins defenseman.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Mar 11, 2011 5:35 AM MST up reply actions  

Sorry I meant Darcy kuemper

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 11, 2011 6:40 AM MST up reply actions  

But that’s just semantics,my point still stands

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 11, 2011 6:42 AM MST up reply actions  

Make no mistake, Kuemper has been wonderful, he’s a big part of it. But the team plays to its strengths too.

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Mar 11, 2011 3:14 PM MST up reply actions  

Red Deer beats Swift Current tonight 5-0. Kuemper records 13th shutout. RNH goes 3-2-5, hitting the 100-point mark with his hat trick goal. With 10 games to go he was on pace for 101 points, now with 6 games to go he’s GOT 101 points. 7-7-14 in four games including two hat tricks.

Of course only two of his points were at even strength tonight, so the other three count against him. :P

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Mar 13, 2011 1:11 AM MST up reply actions  

You’re a hard man to impress. Do you like speedy, smart, skilled players who play with an immense intensity, fire and drive to win it all, and who despite their “lack” of size plays a physical game? These are all other attributes attributed to the guy, which one of those are bad qualities?

Out of curiosity: How many times have you seen RNH play?

by AdR23 on Mar 11, 2011 12:54 AM MST up reply actions  

Once- top prospect game. He was probably the best player there. But that’s just one game. My only concern with him is that ES P/G is low. Look at chart, it’s lower than most of the forwards on that list. Why is it so?
ES play is very important, probably more than PP production.

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 11, 2011 6:57 AM MST up reply actions  

I had a big long post but it got deleted so I’ll give you the point form.

Oil Kings play Red Deer on the 18th – I highly suggest you go watch, I know I will be there.

Red Deer is out-manned at 5v5 in the WHL. Kudrna and Persson who play with RNH are good players, but if you look at their stats w/wo RNH, you see who is the straw stirring that drink (seriously its like a 30+ point pick up w/ RNH).

Taylor Hall wasn’t a prolific 5v5 scorer in Junior, I seem to remember him being ok in his rookie season – especially at 5v5.

by AdR23 on Mar 11, 2011 10:41 AM MST up reply actions  

Ok sure. I will try to make it. I like watching Oil Kings!

But Taylor hall 65ES points in 57 games in his draft season. And Tyler Seguin was something similar. RNH will end around 45 in 70 games making his even strength scoring rate at about 56% as that of Hall

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 11, 2011 11:01 AM MST up reply actions  

You are a great skeptic Sum, a good quality for prospect procurement and evaluation.
I doubt I will be able to convince you that RNH’s lack of ES production can be explained away in terms of team strength and style as well as the differences between the OHL, QMJHL, and the WHL. Hopefully, RNH can convince you otherwise :).

It would be interesting to talk about those 4 prospects you have ranked before RNH, considering he is ranked no lower than 2nd on every pro scouting ranking I’ve seen.

by AdR23 on Mar 11, 2011 11:54 AM MST up reply actions  

Funny thing is that I dont really think that there is anyone worth picking 1st overall this season except maybe Larsson. I think others have made the suggestion and i agree that we might be better off trading down.

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 11, 2011 12:28 PM MST up reply actions  

I love Gilbert Brule!

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on Mar 11, 2011 12:08 PM MST up reply actions  

Lol…he came to my mind too.

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 11, 2011 12:21 PM MST up reply actions  

Another solid post Sum.

Question – What would you move to get another pick in the top 10? I assume the Kings first plus something. What’s the something?

Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and a frequenter of the time waster that is Twitter.

by ryanbatty on Mar 10, 2011 11:55 AM MST reply actions  

I think ST will have anyone from the roster or even prospects to get to the pick. I think Hemsky is gone at the draft for similar but a more substantial package than Penner. Then use the LA pick and some combination of 2nd and 3rd rounders/ prospect to get there.
Maybe he might even put cogliano and Gagner into play especially is we pick a center with our #1 pick.

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 10, 2011 12:10 PM MST up reply actions  

Maybe he might even put cogliano and Gagner into play especially is we pick a center with our #1 pick.

That would make 0 sense, so the org would probably do it. Trading Gagner to make picking a C more palatable would make this team no different than 2007…

by AdR23 on Mar 11, 2011 12:57 AM MST up reply actions  

I did not say trading Gagner to pick a C I said trading Gagner if a C is picked. Well if they trade Gagner to get a good young D back, i would not be opposed to it.

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 11, 2011 6:49 AM MST up reply actions  

I am now slowly getting convinced that (Tambellini) finally has a plan and he doesn’t care about its popularity.

I’m not too convinced on the first but the second half is a lock.

Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and a frequenter of the time waster that is Twitter.

by ryanbatty on Mar 10, 2011 11:57 AM MST reply actions  

Your mention of Johansen reminds me of the Oilers having the option to trade Eberle for Johansen at the draft. I like Eberle, but they may come to regret not pulling the trigger on that one.

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on Mar 10, 2011 12:28 PM MST reply actions  

I must be mistake, but I think it was Hemsky for the 4th, but they asked for Eberle too. or am i mistaken? Well if it was Eberle for Johanssen, I am with you. I think Johansson might end up becoming a better player.

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 10, 2011 12:36 PM MST up reply actions  

I’ll need to watch the video again to be sure.

The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.

by Scott Reynolds on Mar 10, 2011 3:43 PM MST up reply actions  

My recollection was an “AND Eberle??!!” scenario, which was met with a sneer by the Magnificent Bastard,

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Mar 10, 2011 4:12 PM MST up reply actions  

As was mine. It did seem like CBJ wanted Eberle too.

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 10, 2011 9:47 PM MST up reply actions  

good post!

I think this years draft will have more drama then last. Personally after the memorial cup I didn’t think there was a Taylor vs Tyler debate… it was all Hall.

This year it seems very open. I’m leaning Larsson.. but who knows

by puckdonkey on Mar 10, 2011 1:21 PM MST reply actions  

Yeah its much closer and not as high end. I am in team larsson as well. Lets see

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 10, 2011 9:46 PM MST up reply actions  

Another Option

I was just researching how the draft picks moved around for the upcoming draft, and the Senators have 5 picks in the top 60 right now. Their picks look to be very high, and those they received from Nashville (Mid 1st), Boston (Late 2nd) and Chicago (Optionable 2nd pick – could be Chi’s, Cal’s or Atl’s 2nd) will be valuable as well.

If the Oilers do decide as many here suspect that there is little perceived difference in the potential of the top 5 selections, moving down in the draft to acquire additional picks becomes much more attractive. If the Oilers do not win the Lottery, or Ottawa has decided that it needs to get X player, I could easily see a move happening between these two teams. And those additional picks that Ottawa got for their players this year would definitely give either some added quality bullets for Stu, or the leverage to acquire several picks in the top 10-15.

Picking up Strome, Siemens, and Hamilton would do a lot to bring in both some a number of really high end prospects who (imo) have a low likelyhood of being busts. Since we have a potential franchise player in Hall already, we probably don’t need to swing for the fences in this draft – just make good solid bets.

by Permaculture on Mar 10, 2011 2:11 PM MST reply actions  

Yeah…trading down doesnt look like a bad idea at all as long as we are getting another 1st rounder with it. Something like the sens one….

Picking up Strome, Siemens, and Hamilton

That would be great. If we can get both Strome and Hamilton, i will be a very happy camper.
Third guy could be Siemens/McNiell/Armia…doesnt matter!

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 10, 2011 9:46 PM MST up reply actions  

I dont think he is done yet either.

I laughed out loud at this one.

by RiversQ on Mar 10, 2011 9:14 PM MST via mobile reply actions  

Nice post. The Oilers track record of trading up to the top 10 seems pretty weak though. I wonder if Tambi has the chops to get it done? If they want top 10, I suspect they will need to overpay, which will either:
- cause Tambi to chicken out
- have Oilers fans roasting him for the overpay

New Jersey and Atlanta seem the best bets for trading up, particularly Atlanta. But if Dudley deals, it would be for something that gives the Thrashers an immediate boost, which means a roster player or two, not just picks, or even picks at all. Hard to figure out what Edmonton could offer that would interest Lou. Would need to be cheap and compelling to trade down. What does Edmonton have that would be compelling to Lou when he needs to improve the team but also re-sign Parise?

It’ll be fun to watch…

by gcw_rocks on Mar 10, 2011 10:21 PM MST reply actions  

I think the latter will happen. He might end up overpaying and we willed up hating it.
As you said it, the trade withAtlanta would most probably be with a roster player. Let’s see whether they put Bogo on the market, if the contract talks don’t go well.
With Jersey, I think it would be a much easier trade. We have tons of cap space, so we could take a contract of say Rolston/Zubrus in a trade that favors us

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 11, 2011 6:46 AM MST up reply actions  

Taking a dog contract is probably a good strategy if dealing with NJ. Might need to pay less under those circumstances. Rolston has a no-trade I think, so its probably some backroom agreement to pick him off waivers.

by gcw_rocks on Mar 11, 2011 7:40 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah…we win a clear trade then take him off waivers….that seems liklier than Rolston waiving his NTC to come to edmnonton

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 11, 2011 8:05 AM MST up reply actions  

Been done before, with Federov and Marchant I beleive.

by gcw_rocks on Mar 12, 2011 7:02 PM MST up reply actions  

Defence is the only priority!!!

I’m an Oilers fan and a Senators fan from Ottawa. As someone who follows the Oilers closely, my view is that the only reason that the Oilers are not in the playoffs this year is that Kevin Lowe and his management team have not taken care of building a solid defence in the rebuild. They continually draft forwards with the top picks.

As a former dman himself, Lowe must understand that Gretsky and Messier didn’t win cups by themselves. IMO if the Oilers draft anyone but Larsson with their first pick, they should have their heads examined… unless he’s already gone of course.

The priority should be to build a solid defence for years to come, so that when all these young guns mature, there will be someone to get the puck out of the defensive zone to them consistently.

by Marvellous on Mar 11, 2011 8:51 AM MST reply actions  

Yeah….my choice would be Larsson as well and then landeskog, but lets see what the management does

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 11, 2011 12:31 PM MST up reply actions  

Sorry Tambi

I meant Tambi and his team not Lowe.

by Marvellous on Mar 11, 2011 8:57 AM MST reply actions  

eastern conference coaches poll winners

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/article/eastern-conference-coaches-poll-winners/94415

Ryan Strome and Dougie Hamilton do very favorably here

Right before I close the door I yell "Pizza's here" into my emplty appartment so the delivery guy doesn't think All that Pizza is for me!

by SumOil on Mar 11, 2011 1:29 PM MST reply actions  

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