It was the same with Taylor last year. I love the fact that someone had the courage to stand up and give an opposing view. We want that.
That quote comes from Steve Tambellini in the first episode of Oil Change: Overdrive. He's talking to Stu MacGregor about Ryan Nugent-Hopkins just before the 2011 entry draft, and divulges that the selections of both Hall and Nugent-Hopkins were not unanimous. I'm actually very encouraged by these comments. Groupthink can be a powerful negative force, so it's good to see that the most powerful people in the Oilers' organization are encouraging people to express themselves when they disagree with the group.
7 months ago
Scott Reynolds
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Well, I think it is clear that Larsson has already demonstrated that he would have been a great pick also.
MacGregor decided on scarcity.
I’d say that an 18 year old who can step into the top 4 defence of a good team and contribute to winning immediately is quite rare.
Also what he projects to (true top pairing all around defenceman) is every bit as rare and valuable if not more so, than that elusive #1 centre.
Couturier has also been making a solid case for going top 3 as well. Early yet, but in 10 games or so all 3 have shown they were worthy of #1 overall.
"When you find yourself rooting for mediocrity – you might be an Oilers fan." - Neal Livingston
While I think Couturier has been excellent, and I believe he will have an excellent career, if we picked him 1st overall I’d be a little weary. 4 points in 11 games doesn’t exactly scream future star. Obviously it’s early and, well, he’s 18/19 years old and will get better. I just think RNH has already proven that he can do the one thing that is hardest to come by, putting up points. I just think at number one you HAVE to pick a guy who is going to do that for you. Checking centres are available every summer for reasonable dollars (Belanger). Top scoring centres… not so much. To get that in FA you need to give up a lot of dollars over a lot a term (Richards). Not saying Couturier was a bad pick, hell, I would have probably taken him 4th (after Huberdeau, RNH and Larsson), I just don’t think he’s been nearly as impressive as the other two.
And now I realize you said a strong case for going top 3, which I completely agree with, so that last comment was pretty pointless haha.
I posted this mostly because I thought it was interesting rather than trying to say who the club should have picked either this year or last, but I think you’re putting an awful lot of stock in opportunity when you say that Nugent-Hopkins has been more impressive than Couturier.
In terms of points per sixty minutes at evens, Couturier is ahead of Nugent-Hopkins so far, even though he’s starting 60% of his shifts in the DZ (as opposed to 60% in the OZ for Nugent-Hopkins). The raw totals are lower because he’s playing fewer minutes and playing big minutes on the PK instead of big minutes on the PP. Flip the roles, and the story would be very different in terms of raw totals. That isn’t to say that Nugent-Hopkins hasn’t been tremendous, just that Couturier has been extremely impressive too.
The biggest fanana of the Havana Bananas.
by Scott Reynolds on Nov 2, 2011 3:07 PM MDT up reply actions
I did not know that. However, I don’t think it’s fair to say flip the roles just like that. It’s like if you flip the horcoff line’s role with that Hall line. The Hall line will get killed, and the Horcoff line probably doesn’t score as much against weak competition as the Hall line is. I think the same applies with RNH/Couturier’s roles. I don’t think either guy would be as effective as the other in the other role. RNH is an elite PP talent and Couturier seems to be (going off reports since I personally haven’t seen him enough) an elite PK talent. Their coaches are obviously going to play them to their strengths. That’s how I view it anyways.
by bhommy on Nov 2, 2011 3:44 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
and the Horcoff line probably doesn’t score as much against weak competition as the Hall line is.
I don’t understand why people say things that are so easy to verify or prove incorrect.
GFON/60:
Smyth 2.94
Hall 2.84
Horcoff 2.70
Hopkins 2.61
Horcoff and Smyth are outscoring Hopkins and Hall, even though they’re playing the other teams’ best forwards and getting 30% zone starts.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
PTS/60:
Hall+Nugent-Hopkins+Eberle 6.56
Smyth+Horcoff+Jones 6.4
Hall line outscoring Horcoff line. I never said the Hall line is better, it’s pretty clear Horcoff’s is better, but my point stands that the Hall line is scoring more. Not to mention raw totals of 30 points in 35 games vs 23 points in 36 games.
Not to mention raw totals of 30 points in 35 games vs 23 points in 36 games.
Including power play time, where Horcoff is on the top unit with Potter.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
but my point stands that the Hall line is scoring more.
That wasn’t your damn point. Stop changing the argument:
and the Horcoff line probably doesn’t score as much against weak competition as the Hall line is.
That’s what you said.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Thanks, I’m capable of reading. There’s no way to show you stats of what each line would score in reversed roles, so I was showing you the next best thing to prove my “damn point”, that they’re scoring more at 5v5, and that they score more on the PP, which would probably be the best indicator of players abilities to capitalize on opportunity, which is essentially what playing them against weaker comp is about.
Do you really think that Horcoff, Smyth and Jones have more talent and ability to score when given those 2-on-2’s or 3-on-2’s than Hall, Nugent-Hopkins and Eberle?
And I agree Couturier has been impressive. Any rookie (let alone one that was just drafted) being trusted on the PK is damn impressive.
by bhommy on Nov 2, 2011 3:46 PM MDT via mobile up reply actions
Many, many people will be shocked by this. And thank goodness there were people in the org with dissenting opinions.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
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