Advanced Stats And NHL Management
I looked at a few of the ways bloggers are out in front of NHL management, and though there are a multitude of other examples, one of the most significant is advanced metrics. James Mirtle's second article on advanced stats deals with the reasons why NHL teams and fans are slow to adopt advanced statistics as part of a general analytical toolkit.
Why haven’t advanced stats caught on in the NHL? - The Globe and Mail
"Honestly, probably the greatest obstacle in sport is that it’s hard to strip away all the emotion and make completely rational decisions," MacKinnon said. "That’s exactly what analytics is trying to do."
But not all teams are slow to adapt; in fact, Doug Wilson admitted to using those stats in an interview with Fear The Fin.
Interview WIth Sharks General Manager Doug Wilson - Fear The Fin
FTF: In terms of advanced statistics, if I can try and get this out of you—
DW: Good luck [laughs].
How can these these numbers impact management decisions? The most prominent and timely example is Gilbert Brule. Two months into his "breakout" season and six months before the contract was signed, I wrote that the Oilers should take caution in their upcoming contract negotiations because of the warning signals inherent to his advanced stats:
However, a contract like that for an unproven player like Brule can be nothing but trouble for cap-stressed team like Edmonton. Brule is restricted this year and has had one worthwhile stretch in his entire career. The Oilers should stand firm on this one and drive the price down. There is no reason, nor need, to overpay a player with no proven success, currently riding the extremely large coattails of your all-star forward.
Five months later, Jonathan Willis raised even more red flags based on Brule's advanced stats:
What I am saying is that I see a bunch of red flags, and if I were thinking of spending $2.0 million dollars or so, those red flags would bother me a lot. If I were Steve Tambellini, they might even bother me enough to ask what kind of trade value I might get for him at this summer’s NHL Entry Draft.
Brule has struggled since the end of 2010 and is now shuffling off to Oklahoma City with his $1.85 million contract, an outcome not surprising to anyone paying attention to his Hockeymetrics.
Speaking of decision making, Steve Tambellini is going to have to find defensive help both short term and long term. Jake says it will define his reign.
Oil Acumen: 09/28/11 The Trade That Will Define Tambellini
It's possible that that player is somewhere in the organization; be it Oscar Klefbom, Martin Marinicin, Taylor Fedun, Jeff Petry or another as yet undrafted defenseman. The trouble is that Tambellini doesn't have long to wait. It would take a minor miracle for the Oilers to make the post season this year (pray to every God you've ever heard of around Christmas time), which means we're in for six consecutive years of no playoff hockey in Edmonton. That's just sad, and the GM knows it. If that streak runs to seven years, Tambellini's job will be far from secure.
What about the guy rumored to be available in Toronto?
Why Gunnarson is better than you think! - Pension Plan Puppets
Read on after the jump for why I think Gunnarson is a pretty damn good defenseman and deserving of a top 4 role with the club.
Though Oilers' fans prefer good Canadian boys, they shouldn't be afraid of Gunnarsson's heritage.
Driving Play: On Whether Or Not Europeans 'Disappear' In The Playoffs
I finally decided on a simple method to see if European players 'disappear' - I would take European forwards who played on playoff teams who scored at least .5 points per game and played in at least 40 games in a given season. I would then look at their playoff point per game totals and compare them to their regular season totals. If the Europeans did worse in the playoffs than they did in the regular season, they're clearly chokers who hate winning. Simple enough, right?
I talked about how much trouble the Oilers' backend was going to have, even before Ladislav Smid's injury.
Nation Radio - OilersNation
Derek Zona discusses Oilers Forward Teemu Hartikainen, the Oilers defensive corps and Le RNH.
With the defense in tatters, how much improvement can the Oilers expect? Up front, the sophomores are going to trend upwards for a few seasons.
How SOG rates change with age, part 2 - Broad Street Hockey
However, that's not because some players take great leaps forwards and others stall; it's just simple variance. If it were a disparity of learning curves reflecting actual skill, you might expect to see some young players grow fast and others never improve much, but you wouldn't expect to see about half of them getting worse throughout their early 20's. You might expect to see some players age more gracefully than others, but you wouldn't expect to see about half of them getting better through their mid-30's.
As long as we don't expect too much from them, like, you know, comparing them to the greatest player ever to play the game or something.
It is a curse on Ryan Nugent-Hopkins to compare him to Gretzky - Edmonton Journal
You hear some people use the Gretzky — and it’s unfair to compare any kid to Gretzky — but there are some similarities in terms of where this kid is from and where Gretzky is from in terms of what he’s about."
If the Oilers finish in 30th again, does Tambellini have a built-in excuse with the injuries? Should he be on the hot seat regardless? What other NHL GMs should be worried?
Which NHL General Managers Are On The Hot Seat? - SBNation.com
As the 2011-12 NHL season begins, the managerial ranks around the NHL are relatively steady. But for several of the 30 men who serve as general manager of an NHL club, those jobs can quickly turn on them. Here are four general managers who could quickly find themselves out of jobs if things don't go well this season.
Other interesting tidbits from around the 'sphere:
Thoughts on the NHL’s Social Media Policy - Artfulpuck
Hockey players are part of a team. They are paid to play well for that team and represent them appropriately when not on the ice playing. Just as in any other profession where an individual is part of a large entity, there are ramifications to an individual’s actions. Would I go so far as to call it censorship? No. It is more in the line of diplomacy.
Yahoo! Fantasy Hockey Rankings: Make These Changes - Fantasy Hockey Scouts
This is for those of you that will be doing a fantasy hockey draft on Yahoo!in the coming weeks. Yahoo has default pre-draft rankings that you can modify and we'd recommend that you do that based on what we advise below or in the heat of the moment you could end up with some pretty wacky picks or miss a real steal. This is particularly important if you plan on doing an autodraft.
Ex-Oiler Stortini Makes An Impression In Nashville | Edmonton Journal
"Possibly. But you have to tip your hat to [Bodie]. At least he stood up and tried to do what he does. That’s part of his game. On the other hand, you’ve got to recognize that you might get burned. Zack Stortini did a good job for them, drawing him into that and then not dropping his gloves."
Brodeur is a Fraud: Why Doesn't Carolina Get Better Backup Goalies?
There has been one NHL franchise in particular that has seemed to not understand this principle, having been repeatedly burned by weak backup goaltending. That team is the Carolina Hurricanes.
And finally, proof that even the Mike Milbury could build a Stanley Cup winner given a long enough time line.
A Few Million Monkeys Randomly Recreate Shakespeare - Jesse Anderson
Today (2011-09-23) at 2:30 PST the monkeys successfully randomly recreated A Lover’s Complaint, The Tempest (2011-09-26) and As You Like It (2011-09-28). This is the first time a work of Shakespeare has actually been randomly reproduced. Furthermore, this is the largest work ever randomly reproduced. It is one small step for a monkey, one giant leap for virtual primates everywhere.
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I think the drop off was more so Brule’s injuries and off ice stuff. I don’t think advanced stats predicted that.
I think you are wrong and will use the same excuse for Whitney’s lack of elite offence this season
Have you seen my bear Tibbers?
I think they predicted a hefty fall, in fact, he doubled his career shooting percentage to get 17 goals. That was the obvious one – if he kept us his career average, he would’ve scored 8 or 9 goals and been an afterthought. His dependence on Dustin Penner was obvious, and taking him away from Penner was going to cause a underlying fall.
It wasn’t hard to predict, Jonathan and I both did. His career numbers and performance to that point had been that of a replacement player.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
What did you predict (Or would you predict assuming it was 2005) the Sedins would get heading into the 05-06 season? Their 4 year average was probably around 35-40.
Would you have predicted their jump and continued growth?
Good call predicting Brule and it happened that way but it was no given, there are tons of circumstances that lead to performance.
2009-10 Scoring Chances:
Brule Overall: 226-254 – .471
Brule w/Penner: 128-123 – .510
Brule w/o Penner: 98-131 – .428
Do you think the Sedins were reliant solely on one player to create their production?
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
There was a reason JW and I started sounding the alarm well before negotiations were even opened. There were and are significant flaws in his game.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
I think the idea is that Brule was unlikely to keep scoring at that rate. His issues took that from being “his numbers returned to normal” to “Brule is completely ineffecitve as an NHL player”.
Which he was for the first three years of his career and was in 2009-10 away from Dustin Penner.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
“If the Oilers finish in 30th again, does Tambellini have a built-in excuse with the injuries?”
I think we should call him Lucky Steve. Injuries have covered the previous few years, This year couldn’t have started better if you don’t really want to move out of the lottery, which as you know I believe is the case.
I highly doubt that is an ‘excuse’ he can use considering he is the one who built this ‘oft injured’ team. Plus if the team finishes 30th again he should be fired for not having a plan B.
Have you seen my bear Tibbers?
Did he build it, or fail to rid of them it? Whitney was likely Lowe, and Hemsky, Horcoff, Smid are not his.
Why was Whitney likely Lowe?
Is there an arbitrary date that fans have decided that Tambo started making decisions?
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
Tactical contributor to the Copper & Blue and just as boring on the twitters... @dawgbone98
He should be fired for building a team that has zero depth. He can’t control injuries but he can control how much of an impact they have.
Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and a frequenter of the time waster that is Twitter.
We’ll see if someone in the MSM finally calls him on the depth thing.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
I’ll be putting my money on no.
Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and a frequenter of the time waster that is Twitter.
Brule is restricted this year and has had one worthwhile stretch in his entire career. The Oilers should stand firm on this one and drive the price down. There is no reason, nor need, to overpay a player with no proven success, currently riding the extremely large coattails of your all-star forward.
van Riemsdyk is restricted for the next four years and has had one worthwhile stretch in his entire career. The Flyers should have stood firm on this one and driven the price down. There is no reason, nor need, to overpay a player with no proven success, currently riding the extremely large coattails of your all-star forward.
/frownyface.jpg
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
He was overpaid by much, much more but he also produced more. Either way, it’s terrible decision-making, though this isn’t uncommon under Holmgren’s management team.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Something that has happened in this calendar year. Before this I saw him as someone very astute.
Now I am not sure. I am extremely baffled by his off season moves.
Have you seen my bear Tibbers?
You saw the Pronger deal as astute?
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
My favorite DGB line ever was in the list of other jerk moves by Pronger:
When presented with a seven-year contract offer from the Flyers last year, immediately signed it instead of politely saying “Um, maybe you should go back and re-read the CBA”.
Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines
by JaredL on Oct 3, 2011 4:00 PM MDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’m willing to pin the Pronger deal on someone lower down and focus on the judging of talent and value when grading Holmgren.
And I think Holmgren did ok in that regard until this off-season. Leighton was atrocious, and the handling of Gagne was frustrating, but by and large the roster got a little better each year. I liked the Richards and Carter contracts, as I think there was sufficient discount to compensate for the risk of the long term.
This off-season, I haven’t been quite as thrilled. It’s still not clear how much of what happened was dictated by the owner, but even the things that are definitely on Holmgren (JvR contract, Talbot contract, Hyka gaffe, not getting a 3C) seem to have gone the wrong way. But the most annoying part is how much of the fanbase and media are thrilled with these moves.
@BSH_EricT
Writer at Broad Street Hockey
I’m willing to pin the Pronger deal on someone lower down and focus on the judging of talent and value when grading Holmgren.
This is exactly the opposite of Oilers’ fans.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
But the most annoying part is how much of the fanbase and media are thrilled with these moves.
glad to know the MSM is the same in every city!
The narrative in the media was the whole Partying scene of Richards and not having ‘elite’ goatending. Hence the stupidity.
I can understand the Carter deal, even endorse it but then tradin away Richards was plain dumb. Then he handed out the Brygalov contract! WTF MATE
Have you seen my bear Tibbers?
Reading the Globe and Mail article and the one on Fear the Fin is frustrating but they always seem to provide that glimmer of hope.
A big problem I have is that it’s not an all-or-nothing proposition. Sure it would take a fairly big investment to do stuff like recording new stats in house and developing complicated statistics that require a lot of programming. That doesn’t mean you can’t hire a couple analysts that could look into things for you.
Avoiding things like the Brule contract would save a hell of a lot of money and having stats nerds around would help a lot with that. Also, it would help a lot with the don’t-know-where-to-turn problem if they hired some lower-level guys initially and then expanded.
Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines
by JaredL on Oct 3, 2011 2:20 PM MDT reply actions 1 recs
I’m not sure if you remember the interview with Chad Moreau or not, but it’s worth noting that the Oilers were likely the last team in the league to adopt a weight and nutrition regimen.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Interesting link. That made me think of another thing which is that teams like the Oilers, Jets, Islanders and to some extent Nashville should if anything be more willing to search to find value, which would include an analytical approach and maxing out on things like training, nutrition and even getting players acclimated.
It would be worse without a cap, but a team consistently spending near the salary floor or that would have to overpay to bring guys in is going to have to get very lucky with draft picks or find value others aren’t to compete regularly.
Driving Play - The Blog with Three First Lines
There are a number of teams employing analysts either full time or on contract, though most of them aren’t financially strapped.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Brule, Brule... oh oh, you need to go (think "Louie Louie")
If Brule would have become the 50-60 point player that everyone hoped he would become, Tambi would look like a genius right now. Instead, it’s another albatross contract buried in the minors. I think that the Brule contract is a legacy contract from the “desperation era” of Oilers’ management (together with Souray’s, Horcoff’s and Khabibulin’s) when it seemed like every player with a pulse spurned the Oilers unless you overpaid them. Things started to change after drafting Hall and turning the team over to the young guns who actually want to play here.
The only thing I don’t like about waiving Brule is that the Oil waited too long before trying to move him when his trade value has flatlined.
If Brule would have become the 50-60 point player that everyone hoped he would become, Tambi would look like a genius right now.
All of the evidence pointed to Brule being anything but. The only evidence Tambellini had was hope. If you’re going to make bets in an attempt to look like a genius, you want more evidence than hope.
Things started to change after drafting Hall and turning the team over to the young guns who actually want to play here.
What makes you think the young players who are bound by the structure of the league want to play in Edmonton more than any of the players who freely accepted deals to come to or stay in Edmonton?
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
First, if the young guns can be believed, they are all saying the right things about wanting to play to Edmonton. Second, the team gets the young gun’s restricted rights (in any event) for six to seven years. Third, Tambi seemed to have an easier time this offseason in signing free agents like Eager, Hordichuk, Belanger and Barker to contracts when guys like Hall & RNH were already here (I would think that that alone is evidence that we’ve turned a corner). Getting quality support players will encourage the young guns to stay if they believe that the organization is supporting them and protecting them.
We’ll know for sure in 2 years when we have to start paying them.
We’ll see how much they want to stay in Edmonton.
FTR, everyone better hope they badly want to stay in Edmonton or there is going to be some ridiculous deals handed out.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
Tactical contributor to the Copper & Blue and just as boring on the twitters... @dawgbone98
Third, Tambi seemed to have an easier time this offseason in signing free agents like Eager, Hordichuk, Belanger and Barker
That was probably made easier by the fact that only one of those four is actually a worthwhile signing.
Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and a frequenter of the time waster that is Twitter.
players like Brule not understand if they get another contract, this is not the end. It is the beginning of the contract requirements. And maybe after getting a new one. Now he has to think about time in the AHL and maybe it will clear.
It was a bold step of Tambo, because he is his own act in question.

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