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Taylor Hall Chooses To Wear #4, Riles Up Traditionalists - A Copper & Blue Roundtable

There are times when news breaks, but it's just not a story that requires a recap or in-depth analysis, and that's how we felt about yesterday's news that Kevin Lowe handed the #4 jersey to Taylor Hall.  But after we started reading fan reaction, including the many curves of the Oilogosphere, we noticed that this was apparently a momentous occasion, worthy of more than just platitudes.  Chappy said, "I don’t care what you say, it’s a big deal." and Copper & Blue Member Doritogrande said in a FanPost, "What he's doing today is no small deal. He had every right to say no to the wunderkid, and I would have agreed 100% with his decision to do so."

The people have spoken and this, indeed, is big news.   So the authors here considered the question and weighed in:  Taylor Hall has selected the retired #4 of Kevin Lowe and Lowe gave the young man his blessing.  Is this a big deal to you?  If so, are you against Hall wearing #4?  Why?

Star-divide

Ben:  I could not possibly care whether Taylor wears #4 or #44 or #400. Kevin Lowe was quite a good player in his time, but he wasn't a Hockey Hall of Famer and the arguments to retire his number have been few and far between. Really, I'd be more worried about his wearing Jean Beliveau's number as a forward, since how many #4 forwards have there been? Just score more goals and get more assists than the other team and the rest is details.

Bruce:  I think it is kind of a big deal in a symbolic way. While Lowe is not (yet) a Hall of Famer, there's a very strong case to be made that he belongs in the ring of honour. In many ways the poster boy for the Old Boys Club, K-Lowe has clearly cast his lot with the present - and the future - with this classy move. I personally think the ol' #4 will look a lot better with Taylor Hall wearing it and making good things happen on the ice, than it would dangling inertly from the rafters. Lets hope Hall makes Lowe as proud of this decision as Ron Ellis did Ace Bailey in a similar situation four decades ago.

Derek:  I'm not a fan of retiring numbers in the first place, so no, this is not a big deal to me personally.  I don't see the point in hanging a number from the ceiling and looking at it for the next fifty years.  It's just a number and in the long run the number is meaningless - the player matters.  Players change numbers all of the time, from team to team and no one bats an eye.  Put the person's name in a Ring of Honor, a Hall of Heroes, or a team Hall of Fame and hand out the number the following season to whoever wants to try to live up to some hallowed number.

Jaysen:  This franchise lives and dies with two things: selling the past and selling the future.  The present ain't all that pretty.  And that is just the way it is in Edmonton.  Reminds me of the spam I get at my old e-mail address, it doesn't matter how dodgy the e-mail is - somebody's buying.  Someone NEEDS what is being sold.  Regardless of how sensible his current contract might be, Sam Gagner was brought into this league two years too early and he will be a UFA sooner than we think.  Bringing Hall in this early is comparable.

Lowe is my favorite player, ever, and I fully expect him to make into the Hall of Fame one day (lets face it, with 6 Stanley Cup rings - were he a Leaf - he would have been voted in twice by now). Letting Hall use his jersey number IS a nice touch, it really is, but don't mistake it for anything but what it is - a team willing to screw it's future in order to exploit the past because that is all that sells in the present.

Lisa:  Taylor Hall being given the Oilers unofficially retired #4 is, in my mind, a big deal. Kevin Lowe was not only the Oilers' first round draft pick in 1979 but also the Oilers' first ever draft pick. What did this first overall draft pick do? He scored the Oilers' first ever NHL goal, and he went on to be a core member of the dynasty Oilers' team. By allowing Taylor Hall, the first ever first overall pick in Oilers' history, to wear the previously unofficially retired number four, the Oilers are recognizing that there is a new hope in town, and with any luck, this is the start of a new dynasty. It's hard not to expect big things from Taylor, well if you weren't before, as much as we want to think that a number is just a number, hockey fans know that it is so much more.

Neal:  The Lowe/Hall jersey number discussion kind of resembles pledging a college fraternity as a legacy. You may have gotten an invite to rush week by having a brother who pledged the same house, but you still have to prove you deserve it. Sure, give him the #4 because he might be the future of the organization, but step up and earn the right to wear it proudly. Embrace history while making it at the same time.

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Ben
Really, I’d be more worried about his wearing Jean Beliveau’s number as a forward, since how many #4 forwards have there been? Just score more goals and get more assists than the other team and the rest is details.

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Lead Writer for Oil On Whyte - An Edmonton Oilers Blog

by chappy35 on Sep 9, 2010 4:59 PM MDT reply actions  

I stuff it unsolicited into area mailboxes every week. Look for the goldenrod paper and the ALL CAPS COMIC SANS.

by Benjamin Massey on Sep 9, 2010 9:50 PM MDT up reply actions  

I agree with Derek 100%. Who cares about a number? Honour the player instead. The number means nothing, the number IS nothing.

by VanillaAcid on Sep 9, 2010 7:11 PM MDT reply actions  

That’s why I like the Leafs’ approach to honouring players and their numbers rather than retiring them.

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by PPP on Sep 9, 2010 7:22 PM MDT up reply actions  

I would rather see Hall wear 94.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Sep 9, 2010 7:43 PM MDT up reply actions  

Why not 17?

Lead Writer for Oil On Whyte - An Edmonton Oilers Blog

by chappy35 on Sep 9, 2010 7:44 PM MDT up reply actions  

I’d be fine with that too, but Jari was a right wing.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Sep 9, 2010 7:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

Drat

Not the reaction I was going for. Oh well.

Lead Writer for Oil On Whyte - An Edmonton Oilers Blog

by chappy35 on Sep 9, 2010 7:48 PM MDT up reply actions  

Numbers are meaningless. I would have the same reaction if Hall wanted to wear 99.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Sep 9, 2010 7:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

Numbers are meaningless to you, maybe. Many people, including many many fans it seems, seem to think they’re important.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Sep 9, 2010 7:53 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

And I’ve got no issue with them being wrong.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Sep 9, 2010 7:54 PM MDT up reply actions   2 recs

Numbers are the one thing in hockey that identify the player to the fans. Imagine how nuts it would be if players alternated their numbers every other game.

They may be wrong and it may be meaningless but doesn’t that extend as far as the name of the team and the colours of the sweater? In the end, it’s all meaningless in some way but in another way it’s key in helping the fan identify the team and the players.

Numbers are even more recognizable than the player. And I personally don’t think there’s anything wrong with hanging a number from the roof. It’s no different than hanging a division/conference/stanley cup banner from your roof for the next 50 years either.

In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!

by dawgbone98 on Sep 9, 2010 8:08 PM MDT up reply actions   1 recs

Imagine how nuts it would be if players alternated their numbers every other game.

That’s ridiculous. The sewing costs would throw off the entire cost structure of the league.

Players change numbers all of the time, when older players leave the team, when they’re traded to another team. Does this have a major impact on your enjoyment of the game?

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Sep 9, 2010 8:17 PM MDT up reply actions  

Symbols are just symbols, but they’re more than nothing.

by Benjamin Massey on Sep 9, 2010 8:27 PM MDT up reply actions  

I definitely don’t think numbers are meaningless, but I do think retiring them is goofy. I really like E’s article on this from a while back.

by Scott Reynolds on Sep 9, 2010 8:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

I guess I’m okay with hanging them from the rafters, but it’s bizarre to take them out of circulation.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Sep 9, 2010 9:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

I guess I’m okay with hanging them from the rafters

Derek, I’m curious to know why you wouldn’t be okay with that.

There’ll never be another 99. Team celebrates it, takes it out of circulation and commemorates it by raising it high above the ice. It’s a constant reminder of what made 99 so important to this team’s (and the league’s) history.

The number 99 isn’t like Rob Schremp changing his number from 13 to whatever he changed it to on the Island (I think it’s going to be 44). There’s a lot of story behind the number 99. Shouldn’t the number be preserved?

Lead Writer for Oil On Whyte - An Edmonton Oilers Blog

by chappy35 on Sep 9, 2010 9:39 PM MDT up reply actions  

Derek is a robot. His CPU doesn’t have enough RAM to calculate number retirements or clutchness. Bleep! Blorp!

(note: that specific page is fine but for god’s sake don’t navigate that site at work.)

by Benjamin Massey on Sep 9, 2010 9:47 PM MDT up reply actions  

CLUTCHNESS!!!

Lead Writer for Oil On Whyte - An Edmonton Oilers Blog

by chappy35 on Sep 9, 2010 9:49 PM MDT up reply actions  

There’ll never be another 99.

Only because it’s retired. What you mean to say is that there will never be another Wayne Gretzky.

Team celebrates it, takes it out of circulation and commemorates it by raising it high above the ice. It’s a constant reminder of what made 99 so important to this team’s (and the league’s) history.

99 wasn’t important. Wayne Gretzky was. Gretzky could’ve worn rho. Brett Hull wore five different numbers, include two different numbers for both the Flames and the Stars. Hull was very important to Dallas, he brought them a cup, which number should they retire? Both?

If Marian Hossa were to heroically die while saving the lives of orphaned Namibians and the NHL chose to retire his number league-wide, should the league choose 18 or 81? What number do you associate with Teemu Selanne, 8 or 13? Numbers are arbitrary and meaningless.

If you need to be reminded of the player you loved so dearly, why not just hang his nameplate from the rafters?

The number 99 isn’t like Rob Schremp changing his number from 13 to whatever he changed it to on the Island (I think it’s going to be 44). There’s a lot of story behind the number 99. Shouldn’t the number be preserved?

No. It’s just a number. 31 is retired too. If it’s import of player, are you telling me that the Oilers, should they last another 100 years in Edmonton won’t be able to find a goalie (even accidentally) on par with Grant Fuhr?

Name the members of the production line. Now name their numbers. Which came faster, the person or the uniform number? Do the same with the GAG line. The names resonate, the numbers, not so much.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Sep 9, 2010 10:16 PM MDT up reply actions  

99 wasn’t important. Wayne Gretzky was.

Granted, but for the longest time the easiest way to spot Gretzky on the ice was the #99 on his back.

In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!

by dawgbone98 on Sep 10, 2010 7:17 AM MDT up reply actions  

There’ll never be another 99.

Only because it’s retired. What you mean to say is that there will never be another Wayne Gretzky.

I found this funny because some people literally refer to Wayne Gretzky as “99”. Others say “#99”. The guy’s name and number are almost synonymous.

One thing’s for sure: there’ll never be another 99.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Sep 10, 2010 1:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

I agree that the player is bigger than the number. Perhaps one could read into it representing a turn around, and the symbolism, etc… you could. I’d rather not see the kid have these expectations on his shoulders, and just go out and develop into the potential we all hope he truly has. Perhaps, in twenty years we can look back at this number as meaning what the pundits are delving into now as something more than “4.” Until that time, if the guy who the
“4” actually is linked to is giving his blessing… well then, it’s time to move onto bigger issues. Oh wait, I’m sick of talking about Souray too…

by -G- on Sep 9, 2010 7:41 PM MDT reply actions  

Really, I’d be more worried about his wearing Jean Beliveau’s number as a forward, since how many #4 forwards have there been?

In the last decade, I’m pretty sure there’s only been two: Vincent Lecavalier in honour of Jean Beliveau, and Todd Bertuzzi because Pronger already had #44. If numbers are significant, it’s another (small) reason to rag on Bertuzzi, and I can’t think of another argument Derek might find more convincing than that.

by Scott Reynolds on Sep 9, 2010 8:41 PM MDT reply actions  

I think it’s important to note that Hall is on record saying he didn’t ask for #4, but rather Lowe offered it to him.

by Woodguy on Sep 10, 2010 6:32 AM MDT reply actions  

I already think there are too many retired numbers: too many cases of good player, even great player, even elite player, but just not the sort of guy who made such an impact you can’t imagine another guy wearing his number.

I personally think number retirements should be saved for the iconic players of franchise history, for whom you’d say, “it would be a Goddamned travesty if anyone ever wore that number again.” So by my definition, Gretzky yes, Lowe no, so give the kid the number and see what he does with it.

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by Doogie2K on Sep 11, 2010 10:05 PM MDT reply actions  

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