2010 Draft - Forwards and NHLE
One of my favourite tools in evaluating prospects is Gabriel Desjardins' NHL equivalencies. The basic premise is that we can expect each player to bring a portion of his offense with him from the league he's currently playing in to the NHL. By observing how much offense other players brought from their previous league, we can estimate how much offense we can expect from players in the future. It's an imperfect assessment of player skill for sure - we're just measuring offense after all - and I think it's generally a better measure for forwards than it is for defenders (and goalies!), but it's one indicator as to whether or not players will succeed, especially offensively, in the NHL. After the jump I'll explain the system with a bit more depth and look at what each of the forwards drafted in 2010 did last year.
In the chart below, I've taken each player's goals, assists and points, converted them to a "per game" rate, multiplied them by the league equivalency number, and then expressed them as an "NHL equivalency" assuming an 82-game season. As you may have guessed, each league has a different equivalency number. I've used this article for the translations from the NHL, KHL (multiply offense by 0.83), SEL (0.78), FNL (0.54), AHL (0.44), NCAA (0.41), WHL (0.30), OHL (0.30) and QMJHL (0.28). I've used this article for the translations from the USHL (0.27), AJHL (0.16), BCHL (0.14), and MJHL (0.14), and this article for the translations from Minnesota High School hockey. Unfortunately, there are a lot of leagues that don't have an NHL equivalency number yet. These include the U20 European leagues, any high school hockey outside Minnesota, the German second division, and some less popular North American junior leagues (the CCHL and the EJHL).
Before I go ahead and put up the chart a bit more explanation is needed. Firstly, not all of the players drafted in 2009 were the same age. Several players had already passed through the draft at least once (and sometimes twice). All of these older players are included in the chart but are marked in yellow. Second, the "Draft Number" column is not the player's actual draft position but the player's position among forwards. So, for example, Tyler Pitlick was drafted by the Edmonton Oilers 31st overall but was the 22nd forward to be drafted, so his "Draft Number" in the chart is "22". Third, the numbers may be slightly different than NHLE numbers you may have seen elsewhere for these players. That's because I included both regular season and playoff games in the results, which I think probably gives a better estimate. Finally, the "Rank" column is the players organized according to their NHLE. The second number in brackets includes all of the players who don't have an NHLE ranking by inserting them according to their draft number. I broke the chart into four portions so it would be easier to read, but it's still quite small. You can click on the chart if you want to enlarge it.
The first thing that stands out to me in this chart is that the NHLE system really dislikes high school hockey. Brock Nelson has the best NHLE of any of the Minnesota high school players with 73 points in only 25 games, but that still leaves him well down the list. I'll be interested to see how these highly-touted high school players perform in their first year of college. Will they take huge steps forward in their NHLE (which probably means that number could use an adjustment), or will they struggle? It's something to look forward to in a year's time.
Then there's the Boston Bruins. Granted, a couple of these players are overagers, but they've got five of the top twenty-five players by this measure, despite picking only two of the first twenty-five forwards. Their most interesting selection is overager Justin Florek. Most players who've passed through the draft twice (he was first eligible in 2008) have some kind of terrible flaw in their game. I'm not sure what that is with Florek though. He's put up pretty good offense in the NCAA at a reasonably young age and the guy is 6'4''. That's a pretty nice prospect to pick up in the fifth round (by comparison, the Oilers took Tyler Bunz).
Jordan Weal and Mikael Granlund both stand as reminders that you can't teach size. That's the primary concern for both players, and they both got beat down the list because of it. Granlund suffered much less, probably because he played against men this year in Finland and was tremendously successful. Weal, on the other hand, played Canadian Junior, so he fell quite all the way to the third round before getting picked by the L.A. Kings. The Kings had a really nice draft in the first three rounds at least. They took highly ranked defender Derek Forbort in the first round, and then scooped up Tyler Toffoli in the second, followed by Weal in the third. That's a lot of offensive potential for two picks in the middle rounds.
The players with disappointing offense? Nino Niederreiter, Ryan Johansen, and Alexander Burmistrov. All three players were chosen in the top ten despite offense that isn't at the top of their class. Both Niederreiter and Johansen were very young for this draft, and both of them have really good size, so I can understand why they jumped ahead of some of the other options. Burmistrov's talents are different, things like good speed and vision that I'd hope would show up a bit more in the offense. He's pretty old relative to the draft class, and he's not all that big. All three of these guys seem like reach picks to me, but Burmistrov is probably the one I like the least, considering the other options available.
The Oilers' draft picks have a mixed showing by this measure. Taylor Hall looks good, of course, and so does Ryan Martindale, but after that things go a bit sideways. Curtis Hamilton's struggles can likely be attributed to injury, while Kellen Jones and Drew Czerwonka look like poor choices (a small overager with less than incredible offense and a guy who just doesn't have any offense at all), but the real concern is Tyler Pitlick. In Derek's article on Ptilick he said: "I believe that Pitlick fell in the draft - even though the scouting reports didn't change - because he didn't post flashy numbers at Minnesota State." I'll have to agree with him. There are some good reasons for Pitllick to struggle in NCAA hockey - most notably that he's playing against much older players - but his offense is well down the list here, and at least for me, that's a real concern going forward. Hopefully the guy who "would've been drafted in the top ten" if he were 6'3'' can put up some big offensive numbers next year in the WHL.
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In Derek’s article on Ptilick he said: “I believe that Pitlick fell in the draft – even though the scouting reports didn’t change – because he didn’t post flashy numbers at Minnesota State.” I’ll have to agree with him. There are some good reasons for Pitllick to struggle in NCAA hockey – most notably that he’s playing against much older players – but his offense is well down the list here, and at least for me, that’s a real concern going forward. Hopefully the guy who “would’ve been drafted in the top ten” if he were 6’3’’ can put up some big offensive numbers next year in the WHL.
Four years too young in one of the two toughest conferences in the NCAA…Medicine Hat will answer the offensive questions.
Brooks Macek is an interesting prospect. Detroit may have themselves a player.
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It seems like Macek is another guy who fell because of his size. But when you’re that deep in the draft, going for talent and hoping the guy grows an inch or two is probably a more realistic bet than going for size and hoping the guy suddenly becomes a decent player. Plus, if he doesn’t grow that extra couple inches, he still has a shot. If the big guy doesn’t improve, well, not so much.
Medicine Hat will answer the offensive questions.
I just hope the answer is one that we can celebrate!
by Scott Reynolds on Aug 6, 2010 1:20 PM MDT up reply actions
Loved the article Scott. I wonder if any NHL teams, such as Boston, use NHLEs in their thinking for the draft.
by David Staples @ The Cult of Hockey on Aug 6, 2010 1:48 PM MDT reply actions
Jordan Weal …. sigh.
I like your idea of including playoffs, Scott. It won’t inflate the numbers, which ultimately come down to a per-game ratio, but does give a more complete view of a player’s season. For sure it will widen the gap between Hall – Seguin.
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The schedules aren’t close to balanced in the junior leagues anyway, so it’s not like more games against certain opponents is a new thing, and the extra games increase the sample size which seems like a good thing to me.
by Scott Reynolds on Aug 6, 2010 4:39 PM MDT up reply actions
Jordan Weal …. sigh.
He was selected with the #70 pick, the pick the Rangers traded for Brian Bleeping Boyle. So, umm…yeah. Sigh.
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by George E. Ays on Aug 6, 2010 6:21 PM MDT up reply actions
That’s pretty darn fitting. Brian Boyle is HUGE.
by Scott Reynolds on Aug 6, 2010 7:24 PM MDT up reply actions
All three of these guys seem like reach picks to me, but Burmistrov is probably the one I like the least, considering the other options available
I completely agree with you here! My buddy and I were left scratching our heads on this one.
Some of the choices made in this draft were mind-numbing. Fowler and Gormley falling so low. Burmistov and Johansson getting picked so high. McIlrath at #10.
Etem almost falling to second round. Hishon in 1st. crazy…..
Sins can be forgiven but conscience is a killer.
In terms of point-scoring, Etem’s year wasn’t all that impressive. His drop didn’t surprise me that much despite his goal-scoring. Hishon was hurt early in the year which may have depressed his ranking somewhat. He scored nicely, certainly in the range of where he was selected, but size is a pretty big concern. Definitely a reach based on where most scouts had him though.
by Scott Reynolds on Aug 6, 2010 4:37 PM MDT up reply actions
Johansen was very much of a case of the scouts seeing him good. I was skeptical of his rise into the top ten in the second half of the year until I actually saw him in the playoffs. He looked like a completely different player than the one early on in the year despite similar numbers. He was producing a lot more scoring chances and was showing off a top end skill level. The rest of the top 10 after Hall/Seguin seemed to be the soft part of this draft with a lot of incomplete prospects so I’m not suprised that someone took him at #4 based on his upside. He reminds me a lot of Ryan Getzlaf.
I tend to agree that after Hall and Seguin, there were specific concerns about each of the prospects. For Weal and Granlund it was size. For Skinner it was skating. And Tarasenko had the whole “Russian factor” going on. The concern with Johansen (and Niederreiter) was actual offensive results (though Getzlaf didn’t exactly blow the doors off in his draft year either). It’ll be interesting to see who comes through as the best player.
by Scott Reynolds on Aug 6, 2010 6:11 PM MDT up reply actions
iirc, gabe’s methodology was to combine 20 years’ worth of these leagues to get the equivalencies – while i haven’t done any research or anything, intuitively it seems that the finnish league is not what it once was. there has been a large gap in finnish talent making the NHL and many finns taken in the 1st round lately have busted. likewise, it seems that every year new jersey digs out some guy who’s put up solid numbers in the FNL only to have him bust out.
all this is to say that while i am sure that granlund is a very solid prospect, i’m not convinced that the FNL is a better league than the AHL and i’m not sure that minnesota got enormous value with him.
This may serve to prove your point more than offer a rebuttal, but Granlund is the first player taken out of Finland’s top league since the lockout. I guess it depends what you mean by “lately” but there can’t have been too many busts. As for the league itself, the IIHF has the SM-Liiga at 2nd in Europe, behind only the KHL. If that assessment can be trusted, we’re probably overvaluing guys from Sweden right now and actually underselling the Finns. It would be good to update the numbers with more current data, although when I looked at more current stuff for the AHL, NCAA, and CHL, they didn’t stray far from Gabe’s previous estimates.
by Scott Reynolds on Aug 7, 2010 12:16 AM MDT up reply actions
I should clarify that Granlund is the first skater. There were a couple of Finnish goalies taken in the first round, but they’re not really in view here.
by Scott Reynolds on Aug 7, 2010 12:17 AM MDT up reply actions
yeah i went and looked it up also – finland has simply not been producing players to be drafted in the 1st round. even so, the success rate hasn’t been great either, for goalies or players.
i would believe that the AHL, NCAA, and CHL are less subject to variance, as all three ostensibly draw from larger player pools. i also would not believe that the SEL is a worse league, talent wise, than the FNL.
i’m probably biased because it seems like every year new jersey drags some guy out of that league putting up great numbers (viuhkola, pikkarainen, c. murphy, salmela), and he comes over and isn’t even replacement level.
I agree with you that the SEL should be better than SM-Liiga. I’m very curious about what criteria the IIHF was using.
As for the guys that the Devils are bringing over, keep in mind that those guys are pretty old. When I looked at the other leagues, guys who put up points at a young age tended to outperform their NHLE, and guys who were older tended to underperform.
Back to Granlund, even if the SM-Liiga has taken a turn for the worse and is given the same equivalency number as the AHL, he still has an NHLE of 33.9, which would put him near the bottom of the top group offensively, and sixth overall. A point per game in one of the better pro leagues in the world (and I think we can say with confidence that the FNL is in the top seven) is just an impressive offensive season.
by Scott Reynolds on Aug 7, 2010 10:43 AM MDT up reply actions
Scott, I love these posts of yours, but I can’t find the Flyers top pick (3rd rounder Michael Chaput) in there. Oversight or am I blind?
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Thanks for the catch, I must have missed him. When I reprise these next year, he would’ve ended up systematically overlooked, so I really do appreciate it. His line is as follows:
28 – 28 – 56 in 72 GP in the QMJHL for an NHLE of 8.9 – 8.9 – 17.8 which places him 53 (63) on the chart.
by Scott Reynolds on Aug 8, 2010 9:48 PM MDT up reply actions
And he would be the 59th forward chosen in 2010.
by Scott Reynolds on Aug 8, 2010 9:50 PM MDT up reply actions
Thanks a lot.
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by Geoff Detweiler on Aug 9, 2010 8:13 AM MDT up reply actions
I didn’t expect to see Evgeny Kuznetsov (24th overall) so low.
The Btn.ca article you linked to lists the NHLE for the Russian Elite League as 0.83. Is it the same for the KHL?
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Yeah, that’s what I used for the KHL. It’s unfortunate that Gabe’s translation numbers are a bit old, but the ones that I’ve checked with more recent data (CHL, NCAA, AHL) are still very close to the numbers listed on that page. As for Kuznetsov, he just didn’t score that much in the KHL. If you’re looking to be encouraged, some of his lack of scoring might be the result of minimal playing time. He did score well in a few games in the Russian junior league (he scored 4-12-16 in 9 MHL games) and in the U18 tournaments the last two years.
by Scott Reynolds on Aug 14, 2010 8:13 AM MDT up reply actions
I know that he was still one of the top prospects from Europe (I’d seen him gone around 15 in a mock draft, and supposedly the Caps thought he’d go around 12 and were trying to trade up). Good point on playing time though. I guess that would hurt people coming from the SEL as well.
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by red army line on Aug 14, 2010 11:18 AM MDT up reply actions

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