Faceoffs By Age
Earlier today I looked at some of the best and worst faceoff men in the league. One of the things that jumped out from that analysis was that a lot of the worst seasons came from rookies, and all of the best seasons came from players with some experience. After the jump, I'll take a look at faceoff percentage by age and take a look at how much players improve from one season to the next.
The first chart I'll look at is faceoff percentage by age. I've also separated rookies from non-rookies, so that we can see how much experience is helping. In order to qualify for inclusion on this chart, a player must have taken at least 400 EV FO's in a season. In order to qualify as a rookie, the player must have played fewer than 10 NHL games prior to the season in question. The chart includes all qualifying seasons from 2005-06 to 2009-10:We can see by the chart that young players tend to struggle and that players in their rookie seasons struggle a bit more than others, at least until age 21. By age 23 things seem to have stabilized into a range between 50% and 52% for the men taking the most draws, and it stays that way until age 35, when it looks like there may be some late improvement on the dot. In both cases, it seems to be that survival bias will be a big factor. The young players who continue to struggle will stop taking faceoffs. Andrew Cogliano, for instance, is part of the age 20 and 21 samples, but not the age 22 sample, because the coaches stopped using him so often. By the time the player is 23, it seems, he's either improved substantially, or he's not playing center anymore. Survival bias also looks like a big factor at the end of a career. Some of the players hanging on at the end there are probably hanging on, at least in part, because they've always been good on the draw.
So how much improvement is really there? To help answer that question I looked specifically at the improvements from season to season. In order to qualify for this sample, the player in question must have taken at least 400 EV FO's in both seasons. So, for example, in the 21 to 22 sample, all of the players included took at least 400 EV FO's at both age 21 and again at age 22, at which point the two seasons were compared. I've also included an "absolute difference" column, which just means how much the faceoff percentage changed, on average, from one season to the next, whether the change was positive or negative. So, for instance, if two players had seen changes of +3.5% and -3.5% respectively, the average improvement would be 0.0% and the average absolute difference would be 3.5%. I should also mention that an improvement of 1.5% would be something like going from 50.0% to 51.5%. I realize that this terminology might be confusing, but I wasn't sure what else to use. So yeah, keep that in mind.
This chart is interesting because it starts in the way that I'd expect but then diverges significantly from those expectations. I expected to see a lot of improvement in the first few years, and that's exactly what we see. From age 18 to age 24, it looks like real improvements are being made. Then the improvement stops and, although some players have good years, and others have bad years, as a group, they stay about the same. This is also expected. But I thought that it would stay that way right to the end, and that's not what happens. Although the players are getting better at a much slower rate, the group seems to get a little bit better almost every year. Out of the 21 comparisons, the group only regresses three times. In every other year, the group, on average, does a little bit better. I'm not sure what to make of that. Maybe it's the case that the players are just getting better and better at this skill with the odd outlier season thrown in.
The other nifty thing is looking at the average absolute difference. Even if the group itself is improving slowly, the individual players are quite erratic. The average player will see his EV FO% move 1.5% to 3.0% from one year to the next. A lot of that variation is probably just luck, and that makes it hard to know if a player is really improving. Sidney Crosby, for instance, went from 49.9% on faceoffs in 2008-09 to 54.6% in 2009-10. How much of that 4.7% improvement (remember the funky terminology... any suggestions?) is real, and how much is just luck? The numbers above make it very difficult to choose with confidence one way or the other.
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Older guys rock in the faceoff circle
This shows how important a group of older players are to a Stanley Cup run. It also says to cut a lot of slack to young centers as they are 22-25 before they really start to catch on.
Later in the data you have quite a significant jump in the data for players that are over 37 but I would expect that is more a process of players with a bit slower foot speed and lower face off percentages retiring and leaving a sample of a few old jewels which are kept because they can win those tough face offs.
It is also interesting to note that the numbers appear to improve nearly every year as a player ages. This shows that a face off win is just as much about the power between the ears as it is hand eye coordination, speed and strength.
I would like to see the total career numbers for a few of those 38-39 year old jewels and see if as a group they were above average from the beginning or if they just excelled because of great teachers. I suspect it is a bit of both as I really think this is an area that is under coached as the methods teaching have not changed much over the years.
TO be honest I am amazed that some player has not come along and really blown the curve on the rest of the league winning 80% or higher of their face-offs I really think a “Gretzky of the face off circle” will come one day and it will be a player whom really studies the opponents on video and has a system of measuring an opponents weaknesses and memorizes how to beat each player that he may face on any given night going so far as to even have special hockey sticks made for certain players. I remember watching an interview of Dennis Rodman years ago and how he studied players on video and memorized where their shots that were missed were likely to fall as a result he won the rebounding title for years. It was really about preparation for an individual shooting player and playing percentages. The same can be done in hockey in my opinion.
by Sheldon Oilers Fan for Life on Aug 30, 2010 8:39 AM MDT reply actions
Great article, Scott, I’ve been interested in this aspect for quite a while but too lazy disorganized to follow through. Interesting results, some expected, some un-. I anticipated the “veteran advantage” but didn’t quite expect it would become the most apparent so late in the day. There are only 5 ages >52% and they are the oldest 5, ages 35-39. I suspect Sheldon immediately above has tapped into the reason, an old hand like say Rod Brind’Amour will gradually drive up the % of his group simply cuz the group size is shrinking so Rod’s own stats will gradually have a greater effect.
The differences in absolute values didn’t surprise me much, I think any player is subject to some fluctuation, and that can be exaggerated for physical reasons, e.g. Horcoff playing with a bum shoulder all year experienced a drop from a healthy Horcoff. Secondary things like assignments, ZoneStars and even linemates might have an influence as well. But to a certain extent I would expect fluctuations in FO% like there are in Sh%, guys get in the groove and/or the pucks bounce their way for awhile, then things go south for a time. Some of it is likely simple confidence.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Aug 30, 2010 4:31 PM MDT up reply actions
The thing that surprised me most about the older players was that they were actually improving with age as well. A goodly portion of the increased FO% is survival bias, but when you look at the second chart you see “organic” growth as well. There’s more that, on average, from age 32 to 38 than there is from age 24 to 30. I found that very surprising. I’ll probably try to go back further in an effort to increase the sample.
by Scott Reynolds on Aug 30, 2010 4:46 PM MDT up reply actions
I’d bet a lot of that comes down to mental stuff: knowing your opponent’s tricks, knowing the linesman, maybe getting a few breaks from the linesman that a kid won’t get, stuff like that.
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It is amazing that the range remains so small. The best anyone has done in five years is just over 62%, which is high, but not that high. Your point about looking back to when the old age survivors were teenagers is an excellent one. Unfortunately, nhl.com doesn’t have the data to go that far back. If you know where I might find the data, I’d be happy to do the tabulating.
by Scott Reynolds on Aug 30, 2010 4:51 PM MDT up reply actions
So what about an older guy in the minors?
Your stats make me wonder if it would be so foolish to look as some of those older guys in the WHL or AHL for Defensive zone face-offs If a guy really hits his stride at 30+ I am sure there are a few overlooked late bloomers that would be ignored because their box scores are small but as a defensive player its not about goals.
by Sheldon Oilers Fan for Life on Aug 30, 2010 6:23 PM MDT reply actions
Steckel really made the jump full time as a 26 year old or so.
by red army line on Aug 31, 2010 1:21 PM MDT up reply actions
This is one of the reasons I was upset about the Brodziak dump. He was already excelling on the dot at a relatively young age – I think he was 23 his last year here when he did all the starboard side work in the DZone including the PK. His two full seasons here he was over 52% at EV. Now he did slide back a little in Minny this year (~49% EV) so who knows which year is the blip, but … I expect he’s gonna be one of those guys who can play into his 30s, and if he does he may well become one of those 55-60% guys on the dot. One thing the above shows is that these guys don’t tend to deteriorate as they age.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

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