Is Ryan Whitney Ready To Be A Number One Defenseman?
Conventional wisdom in and around Edmonton points toward the Oilers counting on Ryan Whitney and Tom Gilbert as their top defensive pairing in 2010-2011, something that neither of them has been asked to do thus far in their careers. To find out if Whitney is capable of doing so, I turned to FrankD, Managing Editor of the outstanding Pensburgh here at SB Nation.
Copper & Blue: What prevented Ryan Whitney from becoming the number one guy in Pittsburgh?
FrankD: Well the number one guy during Whitney's time in Pittsburgh was without a doubt Sergei Gonchar. I don't think this necessarily affected him in the sort of way where he felt like he had to "battle" or "fight" Gonch for the number one spot, but he was kind of a fragile specimen to begin with. I say this mainly because he was pretty "soff" on defense and was often the target of criticism from former head coach Michel Therrien. You could break that down in two ways though: was it strict, honest criticism with the intent to motivate? Or demoralizing, demeaning criticism meant to throw him under the bus? Whitney's 59 points in 06-07 looked to be the missing piece on the blue line. Or better yet, the complimentary piece. Expectations were high for him to come out the following season and make a similar effort. When he dropped off nearly 20 points in 07-08, the Pittsburgh faithful remained optimistic that he'd come around in 08-09, especially when it was revealed during the offseason that he played through a foot injury. He had some offseason surgery that kept him out of the lineup for the first few weeks of the season. When he came back, something still didn't look or feel right. I wouldn't go as far as to say it looked like he lost a step, but his conditioning level certainly wasn't up to par. Whatever the case, a good number of Pens fans rejoiced when he was traded away for Chris Kunitz and Eric Tangradi in December 08.
For more on Whitney, check out David Staples' interview with a couple of Pittsburgh hockey writers who build an excellent scouting report on Whitney
After the jump, I look at Whitney's underlying stats.
Copper & Blue: What is Whitney's biggest strength? When he's on his game, who does he remind you of?
FrankD: When healthy, Whitney is a very strong skater. He has a pretty strong and accurate wrist shot too, and isn't afraid to let a few one-timers go from the point either. Whit's a good puck-moving guy too, and left an impression in Pittsburgh even long after his departure. A give-and-go, back-door pass to a defenseman crashing the net is still referred to as "The Whitney Play" by many Pens fans. When he's playing at his best, I'd say he reminds me of a poor man's Duncan Keith. Or maybe Brian Campbell. From an offensive perspective at least.
Though Frank sees his offensive numbers falling off after 2006, it seems that the 59 points (.72 points per game) in 2006 were the anomaly. Whitney's other four professional seasons have seen him post between .479 and .558 points per game, a very narrow seven point band over an 82 game season. If Whitney stays healthy, history suggests that he'll score between 39 and 46 points for the Oilers in 2010-2011.
Enough about the counting numbers, what about the microstats*?
*Courtesy of Gabriel Desjardins' www.behindthenet.ca
What do these numbers tell us about the level of competition Ryan Whitney has faced?
Qualcomp suggests Whitney has never played first pairing minutes, and certainly never been a number one defenseman thus far in his career. He started out playing very easy minutes in Pittsburgh and has moved to second-pairing minutes over the last two years. If Tom Renney does decide to play any sort of power-versus-power with Whitney, it will be the first time in his career that Whitney will play tough minutes.
What about his Corsi? It looks like he's nothing to sneeze at when it comes to possession.
Well, Relative Corsi shows that Whitney hasn't fared well on the shot clock, and it was his work with Edmonton's horrendous defense that makes 2009 look good. But the odd thing is his zoneshift numbers. Over the last three years Whitney has had varying degrees of difficulty in his on-ice starting position, but he's either held his own or driven the puck in the right direction to have a positive zoneshift in all three years.
Copper & Blue: How does Whitney falter? Do you have a handle one what causes that? When he's off of his game, who does he remind you of?
FrankD: Whitney's defensive game isn't the best. He's not physical. Not gritty. He'll stand up for teammates and such, but he's not going to be the team's heavy hitter. I'd like to blame footwork or positioning because there were times when he'd just get completely burned. Of course, I'm going from memory of his last two seasons with the Penguins and he was injured and/or recovering for a good part of that time so it may not be the most accurate assessment at this point. But the thing is, he's a one-dimensional defenseman. When his offensive game isn't "on" you may forget he even suited up for the game. When he's off his game I don't think I compare him to anyone really. I just accept that evidence as reasoning behind why Pittsburgh sent him packing.
Look no further than December of 2009 to see evidence of Whitney faltering, and in a big way. When Frank says "you may forget he even suited up for the game", he's talking about numbers that just fall off the face of the earth when he's off of his game. Earl Sleek broke down Whitney's season in his Eulogy on Whitney's time with Anaheim. I've updated Earl's chart of Whitney's even strength underlying statistics to show just how awful the month of January was for Whitney, and I've separated his time with the Oilers and Ducks. Thanks to Vic Ferrari for the tools to make this happen.
Ryan Whitney's Even-Strength Shooting Results In 2009-2010
| Date Segment |
Games Played |
Goals For |
Goals Against |
Goal Differential |
Shots For |
Shots Against |
Shot Pct. |
Attempted Shots For |
Attempted Shots Against |
Corsi Pct. |
| before Dec. 29 | 38 | +36 | -27 | +9 | 352 | 366 | .490 | 632 | 639 | .497 |
| Dec. 29 - Jan. 27 | 16 | +5 | -15 | -10 | 107 | 170 | .386 | 191 | 308 | .383 |
| Jan. 28 - March 3rd |
8 | +10 | -4 | +6 | 65 | 86 | .430 | 122 | 158 | .436 |
| With Edmonton |
19 |
+24 |
-19 |
+5 | 156 | 152 |
.513 | 221 |
249 |
.465 |
Whitney was outshot for the entire season, but lived the charmed life except for January. His scoring chances numbers during his time with the Oilers more closely reflect his Corsi percentage rather than his goal differential. In 19 games, Whitney played 237 minutes of even strength time and was barely outchanced, 77-78. His on ice shooting percentage of 13% through those 19 games bailed him out.
Whitney's expected partner at this point is Tom Gilbert because of the string that the two were able to put together over those last 19 games. A look at their stats at timeonice.com shows the two combined for a .460 Corsi percentage and withstood a .867 even strength save percentage via a 14.5% even strength shooting percentage and were +2 during that time.
What does it all mean?
In the end, Tom Renney isn't likely to run Ryan Whitney and Tom Gilbert out for defensive zone faceoffs against the toughs. I believe Renney will seek to protect Whitney and Gilbert with as many favorable starting positions as possible (likely with Sam Gagner and Ales Hemsky) and attempt to get the most out of his offensive zone faceoffs. Doing so will mean that Ladislav Smid and Kurtis Foster (as of right now - hopefully resolving the Souray situation will mean adding a second-pairing defenseman, even if it is Sheldon Souray) are about to face the most difficult competition and starting positions of their career.
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Comments
Renney ran the D last year
There didn’t seem to be much thought or effort put in to matchups or zone starts. Just the 1-2-3 shuffle. How much of that was his decision? He seemed to be very match up aware in NY so that would lead me to beleive the decisions were made by the OTC.
Doing so will mean that Ladislav Smid and Kurtis Foster (as of right now, hopefully resolving the Souray situation will mean adding a second-pairing defenseman, even if it is Sheldon Souray) are about to face the most difficult competition and starting positions of their career
This is why I would like Souray to stay. Having Souray means that we have a tough minute veteran and then the team can afford to play the players to their strengths!
I think the way to go about building this defense is exactly as you suggest Derek. Whitney and Gilbert can play against good players, but they’re best suited to an offensive role. Thus, the Oilers will need to have two more players with shut-down skills which would give them a nicely balanced top four. Since this is a development year, forcing Smid into that situation and seeing if he can handle it is probably the way to go. But they need to give him somebody who’s done it before (Souray would be fine, Foster not so much). If he does well, then there’s just one more guy to go out and get. If he does poorly, there’s two.
Things that will never happen
Tambellini has to give Sather a call about Marc Staal. He would be the absolute perfect fit.
Give us Gagner and MPS…heck any 2 of the 6 not named yet under-25 guys will suffice, I think. We’ll even throw in Christensen.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
Blueshirt Banter
by George E. Ays on Jul 30, 2010 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Lol…yeah …people need to realize that to get quality u need to give up quality! If i am not mistaken, Staal is your #1 D-man at EV and PK.
Things that will never happen
Sather giving up Staal for less than an overpayment.
You’re not mistaken..Staal’s a beast. Without him, we’d be asking the same questions you guys are, except we’d be trying to stop-gap with Girardi and Rozsival and praying McDonagh is worth the expectations.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
Blueshirt Banter
by George E. Ays on Jul 30, 2010 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I do Gagner and Pitlick for Staal yesterday. Yesterday.
by Benjamin Massey on Jul 30, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I said I think. lol
I couldn’t think of who the last of the top 6 was. Hall, MPS, Gagner, Smid and Eberle were 5….I forgot about Pitlick.
So in other words, no to that.
Camp Tortorella - Where Vomit is a Mainstay
Blueshirt Banter
by George E. Ays on Jul 30, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
If you haven’t yet, I highly recommend you read everything that Vic Ferrari has written there.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
I actually started getting into IOF this summer. A lot of that stuff is pure gold, and I’ve spent many a night perusing through the archives. But Vic and Sunny are so brilliant, and I’m not too good at math, so more stuff than I’d like goes over my head.
It also makes me really jealous that you Oiler guys have such a monopoly on hockey stats and innovation.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Ok, I’m a little confused. Vic’s Zoneshift was a +/- raw number that compared zone starts to zone finishes, but you’re using a . Is the correct interpretation: "In 2007, Whitney started 45.9 of his shifts in the o-zone, and ended 52.1% of his shifts in the o-zone, meaning he drove play in the right direction?"
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
Yeah – it’s a shortcut. Whitney’s zoneshift value last year was +7
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Cool. I actually never even paid attention to the zone finish stats on Gabe’s website, but it’s an awesome idea when compared to zone start. I’m going to have to start playing around with it some more.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
I’ve used it when looking at Tyler Kennedy previously.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Nice piece.
I looked at Kennedy’s numbers from this year, and he’s a shooting machine — he had the highest ES shots/60, even more than Crosby. That drives his Corsi, and playing with Staal doesn’t hurt either.
But this year was likely the end of that line, since word is that we’re going to move Staal up to 2C and switch Malkin to his wing, since we have too many centers and too few wings.
Hockey Blogger at Pensburgh.com
At this point in time, I’d rather trust the tough minutes to Gilbert and Whitney rather than Smid and Foster. Gilbert at least has some track record of playing top minutes in the past (Foster and Smid haven’t), and that combined with being able to play well with Whitney last year gives them the advantage over anyone else in my books.
In either case, the Oilers are in trouble.
“In either case, the Oilers are in trouble.”
I presume that is the strategy in place. Trouble at mill = another high pick, and the culmination of a rebuild phase that was started three years too late and only really got going by accident.
I’m not sure how you call the Khabibulin signing an “accident”.
Trainwreck? Sure.
Catastrophe? Okay.
Calamity? Yup.
But “accident”? No way – there was purpose to that signing.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
I agree that Gilbert and Whitney are more likely to succeed, but the only way Smid can really provide significant value is as a shut-down guy. I certainly don’t want him to try it for the first time with Kurtis Foster, but I think it’s important that the Oilers find out if he can handle that role before needing to re-sign him next off-season.
by Scott Reynolds on Jul 30, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
I think he can have value as a pk/2nd pairing d-man.
The problem I have with your line of thinking is that he’s coming off another injury. He also finally seemed to turn the corner last year and brought his game up a level (playing sheltered minutes with a good partner).
I think putting him in the role of top pairing defender isn’t going to tell you that much about him (I think he’d sink rather than swim) and it could potentially cost you a good player because you undervalue him (ala a situation like Grebeshkov).
I should probably say that the “first” v. “second” pairing for me is more about where these guys start their shifts than who they’re playing against. I think that Whitney and Gilbert are good players, but they’re already getting paid for offense and will likely be most effective with other offensive players and offensive zone starts. If they take on some tough comp in that situation, that’s fine, so long as they’re getting offensive reps. But it means that the Oilers need two more defenders in their top four to take a heavy load of defensive zone responsibilities and, long-term, that’s what they need Smid to be if he plays in the top four. He doesn’t always need to be taking on the tough comp, but he needs to be able to handle it when it comes. It’s not the only way to construct a top four, but I think it’s the best way considering Gilbert and Whitney are both locked in for several seasons.
The ideal situation for this year IMO would have been to have brought in two solid defensive blueliners to take the responsibilities of the top d-zone pair, and start Smid a lot in the d-zone against bad players and hope he succeeds. If he does (or if someone gets hurt), move him up to the top d-zone pairing to get a sense of whether or not he can be counted on when the team is good. In that it doesn’t look like that will happen, I’d still prefer they spend some significant time this year seeing if Smid can sink or swim with tough defensive minutes. At least if he sinks, they’re not stuck paying their #5 guy big bucks for success in easy minutes.
by Scott Reynolds on Jul 30, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t mind Souray and Gilbert pairing up and allowing Smid the chance to work with Whitney against the lesser lights.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Whitney
A strange period in Whitney’s career occurred in the 2008 playoffs. He was paired, for the first time, with Kris Letang in the Ranger series and continued there. He became a part of a shut down pairing as neither New York nor Philadelphia could score against them (by the way they scored plenty against Gill and Scuderi as a pairing and against Gonchar and Orpik). We speculated thait was because, with his foot problem and resulting skating issues, he fared better with the faster, more aggressive Letang, lessened the area he had to cover defensively or that playing with Letang’s exit passing ability, he was not the sole defenseman with that capacity. Whatever the reason, he was far better defensively with a faster, more aggressive puck mover than he had previously been. After Sydor replaced Letang in the finals, his defense fell off. How do you all interpret this seeming anomaly?

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