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Sharks - Avs Scoring Chances Totals

I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen.

UPI/Gary C. Caskey Photo via Newscom

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I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. UPI/Gary C. Caskey Photo via Newscom Content © 2010 Newscom All rights reserved. via cdn.picapp.com

Over the course of tracking scoring chances for this series, I poked a bit of fun at the Avalanche.  A number of Avs fans responded by emailing me and calling me a variety of names, most of which were fit for only Ben to print.  A couple of the emails asked the same question: "Why do you hate the Avs?"  Hate the Avs?  I don't hate the Avs at all.  The jokes I made at the expense of the Avs were mostly born out of exasperation at watching them play. Yes, I know the Avs were a nice story, surprising the hockey world with their amazing start.  But, when I was forced to watch them night in and night out, I realized that this was really a lottery team disguised by the play of a goalie in the midst of a fantastic year.  How Scott was able to do this for every game is something I'll never know. 

Watching the Avs is like watching the Oilers, only the puck doesn't go in the net so much.  If you've watched the Oilers for any amount of time, you know how excruciating that can be.  If you're a regular reader, you know how much fun I've had at the expense of the Oilers, and you know how many jokes I've made concerning the Oilers play.  To expect anything less when I write about a team that's just as bad is unreasonable.  And yes, the Avs are a bad hockey team.  I suspect that when Scott is done with the Avs scoring chance project for the full season that we'll find a team that is not all that far away from the Oilers when it comes to even strength play.  Yes, the Colorado Avalanche are Edmonton Oilers bad.

Colorado goes home to the adoration of their fans.  They were "fast", "plucky", "too young to know what they were playing for", "selfless", and "motivated", and it their goaltending just couldn't hold them in the series at the end.  San Jose moves on, thanks to "luck" even though Joe Thornton, Patrick Marleau and Dany Heatley "underperformed", Joe Pavelski "stepped up" and is now "clutch".    It's not surprising that the numbers tell a different story than those in the print and broadcast media have been pushing, it is surprising how much different the two stories really are.

Star-divide

For those of you who are new to the concept of tracking scoring chances, a scoring chance is defined as a clear play directed toward the opposing net from a dangerous scoring area - loosely defined as the top of the circle in and inside the faceoff dots, though sometimes slightly more generous than that depending on the amount of immediately-preceding puck movement or screens in front of the net.  Blocked shots are generally not included but missed shots are.  A player is awarded a scoring chance anytime he is on the ice and someone from either team has a chance to score.  He is awarded a "chance for" if someone on his team has a chance to score and a "chance against" if the opposing team has a chance to score.   Vic Ferrari makes this all possible with his tools to evaluate Corsi, head-to-head ice time and scoring chances.

*For a primer on the other stats mentioned here, please visit the always-lively Behind The Net Hockey.
Scoring Chances
Corsi Number

 

The first table are the totals for the series by period.  For each game state, the first column represents the Avs' numbers, the second column represents the Sharks' chances. 

Period  Totals  EV  PP  SH 
1 20 40 16 22 3 0 1 18
2 27 52 20 45 7 1 0 6
3 24 52 16 34 7 0 1 18
4 5 7 5 5 0 0 0 2
Series 76 151 57 106 17 1 2 44

 

The Avalanche were outchanced by 2-1 overall and just short of 2-1 at even strength.   The Avs best play at even strength came in the first period and they got progressively worse after that.  For the entire series, the Avs were outchanced 36-79 at even strength in the second and third periods. 

 

The second table is a breakdown of scoring chances for each Avs skater at even strength.  The last three columns show the chances numbers broken down per sixty minutes of even strength time on the ice.

#  Player  EV 
CHF/60 CHA/60 CD/60
29 R. STOA  7.93 2 2
15.13 15.13 0.00
32 K. PORTER  35.25 6 6
10.21 10.21 0.00
45 C. DURNO  6.15 3 3
29.27 29.27 0.00
44 R. WILSON  55.62 12 15
12.95 16.18 -3.24
15 M. HENDRICKS  44.85 10 13
13.38 17.39 -4.01
27 K. QUINCEY  104.10 22 31
12.68 17.87 -5.19
37 R. O'REILLY  78.87 12 20
9.13 15.22 -6.09
22 S. HANNAN  107.58 23 34
12.83 18.96 -6.13
4 J. LILES  93.47 17 27
10.91 17.33 -6.42
23 M. HEJDUK  32.08 6 10
11.22 18.70 -7.48
5 B. CLARK  15.93 3 5
11.30 18.83 -7.53
24 R. SALEI  20.55 4 7
11.68 20.44 -8.76
18 S. YELLE  45.93 6 13
7.84 16.98 -9.14
55 C. MCLEOD  63.07 7 17
6.66 16.17 -9.51
26 P. STASTNY  102.95 20 37
11.66 21.56 -9.91
25 C. STEWART  95.85 22 38
13.77 23.79 -10.02
39 T. GALIARDI  101.12 19 36
11.27 21.36 -10.09
9 M. DUCHENE  101.92 24 42
14.13 24.73 -10.60
40 M. SVATOS  37.20 11 18
17.74 29.03 -11.29
16 D. TUCKER  62.13 10 23
9.66 22.21 -12.55
52 A. FOOTE  111.05 18 46
9.73 24.85 -15.13
59 B. YIP  97.18 12 40
7.41 24.70 -17.29
10 K. CUMISKEY  110.25 15 47
8.16 25.58 -17.41

 

As I noted during each recap, this series was a strict power-versus-power matchup as both coaches chose to match Paul Stastny against Joe Thornton and Matt Duchene against Joe Pavelski.  Neither Duchene nor Stastny could handle this.  Whether this was related to the play of their wingers is another story.  Look at the scoring chance numbers and consider the reverse.  If Stastny was matched against Thornton at even strength, then Thornton outchanced his opponents by something in the range of 2-1, or ten chances per sixty.  Yet, according to the scribes who write and stick to the narrative, Thornton was darned lucky that Pavelski was there to pick up the slack.

Another constant in my game reviews was the brutal play of Brandon Yip.  By the chances numbers Yip was the worst forward on the team and it wasn't close.  In the comments of one of Gabe Desjardins' posts on the subject, an Avs fan mentioned that Yip was pressed into service in the top six because of injuries.  There had to be better options on the team.

The other thing that sticks out is the terrible play of Darcy Tucker.  Tucker spent 71% of his even strength time playing against San Jose's third and fourth lines and did not do well, a -12.55 chance differential per sixty is essentially a -22 at even strength over the course of a season -- against third and fourth level minutes.

The bright spot for the Avs, if you can call it that, was the play of Scott Hannan and Kyle Quincey.  The pair spent 60% of their even strength time in this series matched against Joe Thornton and another 25% matched against Joe Pavelski.  Even though 85% of their even strength time came against the Sharks' top two lines, they posted the best chances differential among all Colorado defenders.  This is a real indictment of Colorado's other defenders, and the other two pairings had the luxury of taking on lesser minutes and were absolutely drilled in doing so, especially Adam Foote and Kyle Cumiskey.

There are some that take issue with the use of Corsi or advanced stats, and for them this series should be instructive. First the full team even strength stats:


Chances Corsi Fenwick
Series -49 -133 -85
Series/60 -9.52 -25.84 -16.52

 

Compare the chances differential per sixty to the Corsi per sixty or Fenwick per sixty.  When someone says "Corsi is irrelevant" as many of Gabe Desjardins' commenters have done recently, they really have no idea what they're talking about.  Corsi is a close estimation of zone time, or as everyone likes to say "puck possession".  Scoring chances are generated through zone time, and goals come from scoring chances.  In other words, when Corsi is spoken of as a measure of a player or team's effectiveness, there is math to back it up.  Of course we have to look at those numbers in context, and when we don't we might say foolish things, but most people that use Corsi as a measuring stick use context. As we saw in this series, crazy things can happen in the short run -- goalies can get hot, bad teams can shoot 22%.  But over time, the events that are mostly luck-driven, goals, regress.  The events that aren't luck driven, also known as zone time and shot quantities, are more predictable and predictive.  Even a single playoff series is much too small of a sample size to determine the above relationships, unless of course there is total domination, as we witnessed in this series.

Now look at the individual stats comparisons:

#  Player  CD/60 Corsi/60 Fenwick/60
29 R. STOA  0.00 -45.38 -15.13
32 K. PORTER  0.00 -17.02 -3.40
45 C. DURNO  0.00 19.51 39.02
44 R. WILSON  -3.24 -16.18 -7.55
15 M. HENDRICKS  -4.01 -14.72 -2.68
27 K. QUINCEY  -5.19 -17.87 -8.07
37 R. O'REILLY  -6.09 -36.52 -22.06
22 S. HANNAN  -6.13 -17.29 -6.69
4 J. LILES  -6.42 -21.18 -10.91
23 M. HEJDUK  -7.48 -29.92 -9.35
5 B. CLARK  -7.53 -22.59 -7.53
24 R. SALEI  -8.76 -23.36 -17.52
18 S. YELLE  -9.14 -27.43 -13.06
55 C. MCLEOD  -9.51 -30.44 -25.69
26 P. STASTNY  -9.91 -22.15 -19.23
25 C. STEWART  -10.02 -23.79 -20.03
39 T. GALIARDI  -10.09 -26.11 -21.95
9 M. DUCHENE  -10.60 -22.96 -9.42
40 M. SVATOS  -11.29 -9.68 -6.45
16 D. TUCKER  -12.55 -20.28 -15.45
52 A. FOOTE  -15.13 -34.58 -24.31
59 B. YIP  -17.29 -40.13 -22.23
10 K. CUMISKEY  -17.41 -44.63 -35.92

 

Ryan Stoa, Kevin Porter, Brett Clark, Marek Svatos, Milan Hejduk and Chris Durno didn't play nearly enough minutes for any of their ratios to be relevant.  Even though the sample size is still small the rest of the team's numbers begin to converge.  Hannan and Quincey have the best Fenwick and Corsi to match the best chances differential.  Cumiskey and Yip are the worst by all measures.

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You wouldn’t be saying all this if Anderson could have maintained his pedestrian .985 sv%.

by dawgbone98 on Apr 27, 2010 1:55 PM PDT reply actions  

I would have written the same story but I would have to dread doing the chances in the second round against the Hawks.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Apr 27, 2010 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Getting back to the Yip statement about there had to be better options…

Tucker was probably considered the better option by coaches as he ended up playing the better part of the last two games on Duchene’s line. So yeah, Duchene’s numbers looked craptastic and I’m sure the Tucker-Yip dynamic duo had something to do with it. Plus the fact that after Quincey and Hannan, we had a wheel of defenseman that included Foote, Cumiskey, a tentative Ryan Wilson, Salei of the 14 regular season games, and Liles (the prototypical offensive defenseman. Ohh, and I guess we could have called up Tom Preissing for shits and giggles!!!

Once Mueller got knocked out (Fuck you Rob Blake) at the end of the season, I figured we’d have the double hit of a less effective power play and some depth issues after the top line. I was proven right. Then Hejduk went down and it just got uglier.

Let’s put it this way: there was a significant portion of people hoping to see David Jones back in this series since the proverbial well was dry after the Mueller/Hejduk injuries. Before you go look it up, I’ll let you know Jones tore his ACL in late November, had surgery, and hadn’t skated till mid April. So yeah, there likely weren’t any better options.

If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!

by Mike @ MHH on Apr 27, 2010 3:45 PM PDT reply actions  

Even with Mueller and Hejduk, they were woefully thin up front. This goes back to what I said about the Avs’ management team. They could have easily had a couple of “real” NHL players at forward for a couple of lower-round draft picks. They chose not to sacrifice those picks for a reason.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Apr 27, 2010 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree. They just backed into 3 playoff games worth of revenue without betting the farm, even if that farm was late-round picks.

If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!

by Mike @ MHH on Apr 28, 2010 7:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t think the Avs management is fooled, at all, as to where this team lies in terms of their rebuild. They are clearly being patient and the trade deadline was an indication that they are committed to building this thing from the ground up.

It’s strange you mention Hannan as a good player, because there were times where he drove me batty in this series. His defense is great, but his breakouts are cover-your-eyes awful.

The one problem with the Avs rebuild is that they don’t have much in the way of wingers in the system. They do have defense (and loads of it).

I’m still unsure why Stewart gets overlooked so much. In this series he played pretty awful, minus game 1, but all season he had decent numbers, not just in the randomness department (goals) but his Corsi, and all other indicators have been pretty solid all season. That said, I think Galiardi (whose still only 21) is a 3rd liner. I hope the Avs realize their deficiencies at wing and use some FA money to go get a decent one.

The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Apr 29, 2010 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

That Anderson, what a playoff choker. I mean look at the support his team gave him, they owned 33% of the chances for Chrissakes!

It’s just a damn shame about Stastny got as dominated as he did, normally he’s pure quality. On a related note, I have no idea why Colorado decided to trade Wolski for Mueller, that seems like a down-grade in the present and the future. Stastny just had nobody good to play with for the last four games.

Still, injuries in this case are an excuse because Colorado was no hell when healthy. Nice spot on Hannan though, history says that he would be COL’s best D and this exercise bore that out.

by R O on Apr 28, 2010 7:20 AM PDT reply actions  

The Mueller-Wolski trade was about need and $$. Wolski is an upcoming RFA who will command a decent raise. He also had “effort” issues with every coach since Quenneville. The Avs also lacked a right-handed shot from the point on the PP. Mueller (while having some issues with coaches himself) filled that need on the PP and comes at a much more palatable price. It has all the earmarks of a classic “change of scenery” trade that was bearing fruit for both teams until Mueller got hurt. Mueller didn’t play on SoS’s line either. He was on Duchene’s with Hejduk on the other wing.

If we don't get our sauce, we ain't watching the game!

by Mike @ MHH on Apr 29, 2010 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

I am looking forward to your or Hawerchuk’s or whomever’s article about how badly the Habs played in their series against the Caps…and how lady luck got them into the second round. It seems their Corsi numbers would be eerily similar to the Avs given how badly they were outshot, especially in the last game….the most important one. =)

This is our team: underrated, filled with amazingly talented kids and veteran leaders, both young and old, who are buying into the vision of a hard working, fast moving, never-say-die game. They are the 2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche.

by Beachie on Apr 29, 2010 8:10 AM PDT reply actions  

Maybe you can write that article, since you care enough to comment on it.

by R O on Apr 29, 2010 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Lord

pull your head out….it was tongue in cheek. Or are jokes not allowed?

This is our team: underrated, filled with amazingly talented kids and veteran leaders, both young and old, who are buying into the vision of a hard working, fast moving, never-say-die game. They are the 2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche.

by Beachie on Apr 29, 2010 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

I now wish I was tracking both, because I’m hearing the same ridiculous things from Habs fans.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Apr 29, 2010 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

I know you’re trying to make a joke, but:

Habs-Caps: Habs up 40:30, tied 19:30 – expect shots to be lopsided in WSH’s favor
Avs-Sharks: Avs up 2:42, tied 3:16, Sharks up 54:02 – expect shots to be lopsided in COL’s favor

And what were the Fenwick shot totals?

WSH 53 MTL 27
COL 33 SJ 49

See the difference?

by Hawerchuk on Apr 29, 2010 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

IT WAS A FUCKING JOKE

I know the Habs played lights out and a better game than the Avs; otherwise they would not have beat the President’s Trophy Winners. I watched the game. They were phenomenal. I don’t need you to bust out your stupid numbers AGAIN to show it. If I say it is a joke and you admit that you know it’s a joke, why do you even bother for fuck’s sake? It’s stupid and needless.

This is our team: underrated, filled with amazingly talented kids and veteran leaders, both young and old, who are buying into the vision of a hard working, fast moving, never-say-die game. They are the 2009-2010 Colorado Avalanche.

by Beachie on Apr 29, 2010 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Excellent, excellent work.

Of course, Corsi and scoring chances plus/minus are hugely relevant as team stats, as a measure for judging the performance of a team or a group of five players.

Scoring chances is superior to Corsi plus/minus in this regard, I believe. I strongly suspect that over the course of a full season scoring chances are far more causative of goals being scored than are shots at net and territorial dominace.

If any fan doubts that scoring chances have meaning as team stats, they should simply track scoring chances for an entire series.

This series was, evidently, like Team Canada vs Slovakia at Vancouver 2010 on repeat.

by David Staples @ The Cult of Hockey on Apr 29, 2010 8:21 AM PDT reply actions  

I strongly suspect that over the course of a full season scoring chances are far more causative of goals being scored than are shots at net and territorial dominace.

Of course, territorial advantage drives scoring chances at even strength (which is intuitive), and shots-on-net are used as a proxy for territorial advantage.

So they all correlate to goal-scoring. These aren’t separate phenomena Staples, reality dictates otherwise. A team that spends more time in the good end of the ice generally gets more scoring chances, that’s where the freaking scoring area is, after all.

But keep on keepin on’ Staples. You’re hitting it out of the park.

by R O on Apr 29, 2010 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

David,

There is basically 100% correlation between scoring chances and Corsi for shots taken in the ‘home plate’ area, as they call it.

What I have found is that whatever you do: count shots on goal; Fenwick; Corsi; Scoring chances (by fans or by coaches); zone time; close shots only – you get the same answer. There’s no daylight between these metrics.

The bigger problem is that they only explain 40% of winning percentage. So we need to figure out how to close up that last 60%.

by Hawerchuk on Apr 29, 2010 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

The bigger problem is that they only explain 40% of winning percentage. So we need to figure out how to close up that last 60%.

For the sake of keeping sports fun to watch, no we don’t. If you had all 100% assuredness, then why would anyone bother watching…

I mean this in no disrespect to you by the way, just as a point about sports. It’s the “anything can happen” factor that keeps it fun.

by cbernardin on Apr 29, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Some people have intellectual curiosity beyond that, however. If knowing what leads to winning makes the game less interesting for you, then by all means don’t bother to inquire further.

Also, I’m not sure we’ll ever close the gap completely. Shit happens and sometimes it’s just not predictable.

by Kent Wilson on Apr 29, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well 100% is definitely unattainable because who knows when a stick will break or when a player’s gonna trip himself doing a crossover for example.

But I guess you’re right, if people were to start getting stuff right, say 80% of the time, I suppose it would just be up to me not to listen to them. As long as the information didn’t become too public.

by cbernardin on Apr 30, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

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GP W L OTL PT
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Colorado 82 43 30 9 95
Calgary 82 40 32 10 90
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Edmonton 82 27 47 8 62

(updated 4.12.2010 at 6:21 AM PDT)

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TOI/G:

Horcoff (19:23)

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Penner (63)

Visnovsky (32)

Goals:

Penner (32)

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Assists:

Penner (31)

Gilbert (23)

EV+/- /15

Penner (.152)

Smid (.090)

Shots:

Penner (203)

Gilbert (96)

Corsi/15:

Penner(.405)

Visnovsky (.460)

SCF/15:

Penner (5.241)

Visnovsky (4.517)

SCA/15:

Stortini (3.850)

Gilbert (4.360)

SCDiff/15:

Penner (.448)

Visnovsky (.122)

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