Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Jeremy Lin Continues Rampage, New York Wins On Road

The Selke finalists: a microstatic look

A couple of modern traditions are taking place for hockey watchers this week. On a daily basis the NHL is releasing the names of the "finalists" of its major trophies, the three players who received the most votes for the Hart, Norris, Vezina, Calder, and Lady Byng Trophies, among others. It's a bit of a gimmick, since there are no "finals"; the order of finish is already known, but won't be released until the awards gala at the end of the season. The process does serve to highlight the fine seasons of more than just the winners.

The other tradition is that of second-guessing the voters. Which players made the short list on the strength of their reputation rather than their actual play? Who's the "seen him good", or for that matter the "remember him good", darling of the media? Who's the up-and-comer who is getting touted for an award before he's quite there yet? Who's the deserving guy on the local team who yet again has been cruelly overlooked?

One award that has always prompted dark mutterings about the competency of the voters is the Frank J. Selke Trophy for the best defensive forward. Defensive efficiency is notoriously difficult to measure, so it has always seemed to be more of a reputation award than anything. While many deserving players have been bypassed over the years * coughJariKurricough * the list of Selke winners stands up to scrutiny pretty darn well, featuring as it does many great checkers and two-way players and only a couple "flavour of the month" duds like Steve Kasper and his minus-18.  

It seems to me that defensive play is one aspect of the game that we surely have a better handle on nowadays. There are many more statistical categories that capture a player's role within the game and within his team, from the NHL's own much-maligned RTSS numbers to some of the more reliable metrics gathered and disseminated by keen observers of the game like Gabe Desjardins and Vic Ferrari. We now have reliable data on where a player is deployed (ZoneStart), against whom (Quality of Competition), and how the play flows when he is out there (Corsi).

In 2009-10 the Selke finalists are an interesting group. Pavel Datsyuk, Ryan Kesler, and Jordan Staal all played on solid playoff-bound teams that finished 4th or 5th in their respective conferences with 101-103 points. Datsyuk and Staal have faced off in the last two Stanley Cup Finals, while Kesler's team reached the SCF as recently as 1994 ... oops, maybe one of these things is not like the others.  :)

All are centres, although in somewhat different roles within their teams; for discussion purposes let's consider Datsyuk a first-line centre, Kesler a second-liner, and Staal the prototypical third-line checking centre. After the jump we'll have a look at their relative performances across a broad spectrum of statistical metrics.

Star-divide

 

Datsyuk DET Kesler VAN J.Staal PIT
GP 80 3 82 1 82 1
TOI/G 20:20 1 19:37 2 19:23 3
Shifts/G 25.7 1 25.3 1 23.6 1
G 27 1 25 5 21 2
A 43 2 50 3 28 3
P 70 1 75 3 49 3
+/- +17 1 +1 7 +19 1
ESTOI/G 16:17 1 14:12 3 14:08 3
ESP  45 2 46 4 41 3
ESG/60 0.88 3/13 0.65 8/13 0.92 5/13
ESP/60 2.11 2/13 2.27 4/13 2.11 4/13
QualComp 0.036 2/13 0.028 1/13 0.042 3/13
Corsi QC 0.703 2/13 0.215 3/13 0.326 2/13
Rel Corsi QC 0.567 5/13 0.893 1/13 0.907 1/13
QualTeam 0.379 2/13 -0.038 4/13 0.155 4/13
Corsi QT 12.331 1/13 6.665 4/13 5.103 6/13
Rel Corsi QT 4.203 1/13 4.385 4/13 0.862 6/13
ES GF On/60 2.75 3/13 2.92 5/13 3.03 4/13
ES GA On/60 2.06 3/13 3.08 12/13 2.16 3/13
ES +-/60 +0.69 1/13 -0.16 9/13 +0.87 3/13
ES Sh% On 8.18% 3/13 8.67% 5/13 9.35% 5/13
ES Sv% On 0.922 5/13 0.894 12/13 0.919 4/13
ES PDO# 1.004 1/13 0.981 11/13 1.013 5/13
ES Corsi On +15.12 2/13 +11.36 5/13 +10.44 4/13
ES Rel Corsi +9.4 2/13 +10.9 5/13 +7.9 4/13
ES ZoneStart 50.7% 4/13 44.8% 5/13 50.8% 4/13
Pen.Taken/60 0.1 1/13 0.9 7/13 0.5 2/13
Pen.Drawn/60 1.4 3/13 1.9 2/13 1.0 6/13
Hits 89 8 95 5 121 5
Blocked shots 33 5 73 2 41 6
Takeaways 132 1 83 1 41 3
Tk:Gv ratio 1.81 1 2.96 2 1.32 2
Faceoffs 1070 2 1401 2 1324 2
FO% 55.1% 1 55.1% 1 48.3% 2
SHTOI/G 0:44 8 2:39 3 3:20 1
SHP/60 0 n/a 0.88 2/5 0.68 1/5
SH Rel Corsi 13.9 n/a -4.8 4/5 -2.1 3/5
SH GA On/60 5.43 n/a 5.27 2/5 6.12 4/5
SH +- /60 -4.34 n/a -3.8 2/5 -5.44 4/5

I have tried to group these stats in logical clumps, showing both raw totals and where the player ranks among the forwards with 40+ GP on his own team in each category. My two primary sources were NHL.com and behindthenet.ca; the stats from the former show the players ranking as a single number, while the latter shows that ranking against the number of eligible teammates (13 in each case; I removed Alexei Ponikarovsky from the Pittsburgh equation as he only played 16 games with the Pens). The PK stats at bottom show only those forwards meeting the dual standards of 40+ GP and 1:00+ SH TOI/G. I chose to omit powerplay statistics altogether as they have little bearing on defensive performance. Note also that I have shown in bold, those categories which I deem to be purely or primarily defensive in nature, and in italics those which measure two-way play. 

First of all, the similarities. All three are big-minute centres, ranking 1st, 2nd and 3rd respectively on their teams in TOI, in keeping with their primary roles on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd lines respectively. All three lead their squads in Shifts per game, which suggests extra defensive assignments for Kesler and Staal. All three had very similar offensive production at even strength, with the discrepancy in their overall totals due to Staal's lack of powerplay time and production. All three have very solid plus numbers in Relative Corsi despite facing competition and ZoneStarts that are well above team averages in all cases.


The case for Datsyuk: The Red Wings star is gunning for his third consecutive Selke and the numbers make a compelling argument. Once again Datsyuk led the loop in Takeways by a very wide margin, almost 60% ahead of Kesler who ranked second in the NHL. Of course such numbers must be taken with a grain of salt given the apparent lack of a league-wide standard, but it's hard to deny Datsyuk is a master of the art of puck-stealing. Particularly impressive is his ability to challenge for the puck without taking penalties; not only will that "gentlemanly and effective" combination help him win his fifth straight Lady Byng, it speaks directly to excellent defence that he doesn't often put his team at a manpower disadvantage. Datsyuk has the best GA/60 of any of the three candidates.

Contra: Datsyuk faces slightly lower QualComp than his rivals, and also plays with top-level teammates. His penalty-killing role is much less than the others, surely an important consideration for a defensive player. His great Relative Corsi in that situation has to be discounted significnatly due to small sample size; it's not that he can't kill penalties, it's just that he doesn't.

 
The case for Kesler: By raw numbers (although not team ranking) Kesler had the toughest ZoneStart of the three, with an O-zone Pct. below 45% compared to the others' ~50%. He was by far the leading shot blocker, and the most effective faceoff man overall, taking many more draws than Datsyuk and achieving a much better percentage than Staal. He has a great Tk:Gv ratio which can only partially be written off to home scorer bias. He faces the toughs playing with second-level teammates.

Contra: Kesler was a minus player at even strength, with a lousy ES GA of over 3 per 60,almost a goal per hour worse than his rivals and ranking a lowly 12th on his own club. This mirrors his poor numbers in on-ice Sv% and PDO#, which depending on how you feel about the dice roll of percentages, either explains away Kesler's poor numbers or is symptomatic of too many gold-star scoring chances against on his watch. Kesler also takes more penalties than his rivals, though he draws more as well.


The case for Staal: This guy is a very balanced player, ranking among the top 6 forwards on his team in every single category listed, and in the top 3 in a rank majority of those. He's a horse on the PK, ranking second in the NHL (behind only Jay McClement) in SH TOI . Like Kesler, he plays top level opposition with second level linemates; but in Jordan's case he manages to outscore by a healthy margin in the process.

Contra: Staal's faceoff percentage is still on the shady side of 50%; although he has significantly improved in this category every year he's been in the league - he was a Coglianoesque 37.1% as a rookie in '06-07 - this is one indicator that this guy is still a kid (just 21 this season).

 

My "vote": Of course I don't have one, that said I daresay I've already put more time into researching this than 95% of the PHWA members who do cast ballots. :p  If I was to throw out "seen him good" and simply rely on number crunching, one method might be to simply identify a basket of key categories and see how the guy ranks on his own team across the board. For argument's sake I would tend toward a disparate sixpack of metrics that includes QualComp, ZoneStart, SH TOI, GA On/60, Relative Corsi, and Tk:Gv ratio, with the first three identifying the player's role on his team and the last three crudely measuring his performance both with and without the puck. If one was to apply this method to this year's candidates, the surprise winner of the Selke Trophy would be Jordan Staal.

Those choices (and omissions) are by nature arbitrary. No doubt arguments can be raised to include other metrics, or to use a weighting system; I welcome discussion in the comments section. Being a lazy bastard at heart I have only done the detailed comp of the three finalists, so I also invite you to submit names of other worthy Selke candidates - Mike Richards? Martin Hanzal? Brandon Sutter? - who might have similar or even better statistical qualifications than the above three. Nonetheless, I am satisfied that the information at hand confirms that each of the three finalists has staked a solid claim to the trophy.

Comment 44 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

I'm a Zetterberg man, myself.

From closley watching the Wings last season in the Finals (and tracking true scoring chances plus/minus in those games), I was greatly impressed with H. Zetterberg. He outplayed Crosby in the Finals.

Was Zetterberg that good this year? I don’t know.

My dark horse candidate: Dustin Penner.

Best defensive forward on Oilers (his main problems are: he’s on the Oilers and he plays the wing, where his defensive responsibilities are far less than those of a centre, which also applied to Kurri, as great as he was).

Penner is tough on the boards, very reliable picking up his own man, smart (though not furious) on the backcheck. He’s not turnover prone.

Now, I don’t know about Penner’s fancy stats. But I hardly ever see the man make a mistake that results in a great scoring chance or a goal against his team, and that’s what I go by.

BTW, he was also good as a penalty killer (though Pisani was better).

Runner up for defensive forward on Oilers: Zack Stortini, he’s like Penner, though not quite as adept moving the puck out of his own zone and he hasn’t been tested as much against tough competition.

by David Staples @ The Cult of Hockey on Apr 22, 2010 2:07 PM MDT reply actions  

Was Zetterberg that good this year? I don’t know. …

Now, I don’t know about Penner’s fancy stats …

Ha! David, you have fallen into the trap. As our token MSM commenter (and thanks for being there:) you may have unwittingly confirmed the MSM’s tendency to “seen him good” on this trophy.

That said I see you more as blogger than MSM, since you write for your living in a different section of the paper entirely while being an active contributor to the Oilogosphere for a long time now. Unlike some who comment in these parts, I appreciate the work you do and have done in raising the profile of the ’sphere.

I daresay if you were actually voting on the Selke you would delve a little more deeply into the statistical evidence, as I have attempted to do here. Of course the truly “correct” answer, if indeed one is possibly, is one where “seen him good” and “studied the stats” are in perfect agreement with one another. There is some validity in both methods, and my article does not mean to imply that one should replace the other. But a few numbers sure as hell can augment, or destroy as the case may be, a case.

My dark horse candidate: Dustin Penner.

You’ve seen him very good, and described him very well. I agree that Penner is a fine defensive player, among the best on the Oilers, albeit in a middling role. You’re right he makes very few mistakes, indeed you would know that better than anyone given your ongoing Errors project. Speaking of fancy stats … :) Seriously, if Errors were scored around the league, I would have used them in the article in the same manner as the other stats – how many, and where does the guy rank on his team? Same thing for Scoring Chances Allowed — if only we had such data, esp. per 60, it would really useful for discussions like this one. Unfortunately those ideas are still emerging, are very labour intensive, and are not yet widespread.

Runner up for defensive forward on Oilers: Zack Stortini, he’s like Penner, though not quite as adept moving the puck out of his own zone and he hasn’t been tested as much against tough competition.

I’m a big Stortini fan as you may have heard :D, and am quite pleased with his defensive game and how it continues to develop. He’s pretty darn decent within his role(s). But as your comment about facing the toughs implies, that role is relatively minor. QualComp is a Huge part of the equation, and Zack is just starting to move up the food chain in that regard. He has zero PK responsibilities, so using my “sixpack” system he simply doesn’t get enough points for his defensive role within the team. Whereas a guy like Shawn Horcoff pretty much maxes out in those areas, but this year ran into problems on the production side. As recently as last season Horcoff was a very credible Selke candidate.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Apr 22, 2010 3:14 PM MDT up reply actions  

P.S.

Again, and just based on close observation of last year’s final, Crosby, Zetterberg and Datsyuk were all better defensive forwards than Staal. But maybe he’s improved this year.

by David Staples @ The Cult of Hockey on Apr 22, 2010 2:09 PM MDT reply actions  

Being a lazy bastard at heart I have only done the detailed comp of the three finalists

Seriously, for shame. Especially given that all across North America, hockey writers everywhere busted their collective ass googling “plus minus leeders [sic]” and then voting for Koivu because The Hockey News had a profile on him earlier this year.

by Passive Voice on Apr 22, 2010 2:11 PM MDT reply actions  

One other name that probably deserve to be thrown into the discussion are Patrice Bergeron (2/11 Zonestart; 1/11, 1/11, 3/11 in various QComps, 1/11 in Corsi, 1st in TA [almost 3:1 TA:GA ratio], 3/8 PK Corsi (1/3 among forwards with +1.5 minutes), 58% on the dot….

I may have just convinced myself that he deserves it.

by Passive Voice on Apr 22, 2010 2:25 PM MDT reply actions  

Bergeron’s a very good forward. It’s kind of a shame he didn’t last on Crosby’s line at the Olys.

by R O on Apr 22, 2010 2:37 PM MDT up reply actions  

Good catch. Bergeron is certainly a player of similar quality to the guys on the short list. I’ve been admiring his work in the playoffs … really smart player, great instincts on where to move that puck in all three zones.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Apr 22, 2010 6:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

This is an excellent post, Bruce. If only the PHWA examined things in half as much detail most people would, uh, still not really care about who won the Selke.

--Garth Paulson, First Tiger of That Didn't Miss by Much and co-host of El-Kabong!

by Garth Paulson on Apr 22, 2010 2:29 PM MDT reply actions  

Seriously, well done Bruce.

That 1994 reference though wasn’t necessary ;)

'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.

by Yankee Canuck on Apr 22, 2010 2:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hahahaha.

I might have held off if you guys had lost last night. Then again, I might not have. :)

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Apr 22, 2010 3:57 PM MDT up reply actions  

He did rank first in the NHL in SMT (Strong. Muscular. Thighs.)

by edm_euler on Apr 22, 2010 2:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

But how is he at Taking The Temperature (T^3) of a game?

by R O on Apr 22, 2010 3:30 PM MDT up reply actions  

I don’t know about Staal. I mean that team has Crosby and whatever QualComp might say, I think common sense and the viewing pleasure of a few Penguins games dictate that Crosby sees more of the other team’s best. Certainly strings aren’t being pulled for Crosby the way they are for Malkin.

Kesler is just incredible though, totally disagree with calling him a second line centre. The way he was deployed by VAN he was THE most valuable player on that team, he took on anybody and everybody and played on the PP and PK and dominated his opponents territorially and allowed the Sedins to score a bunch in tissue-soft minutes.

I mean if VAN didn’t have the Sedins (say they let them go), but instead had (say) flawed forwards Cammalleri and Spezza… well with the same luck that the Sedins enjoyed, I don’t think VAN would have fallen much in the standings.

Datsyuk is quality but I like Zetterberg on that team a lot too.

But yeah, my vote for Selke is either Crosby or Kesler.

by R O on Apr 22, 2010 3:18 PM MDT reply actions  

One thing I can tell you is that Sid and Jordan very rarely play together. We don’t have that beauty “played with/against” resource at hockeyanalysis.com anymore, but timeonice.com stats show that of 2081 shots attempted with Staal on the ice, only 47 occurred with Crosby out there as well, a lowly 2.3%. So Jordan doesn’t benefit on the QualTeam side as much as some Penguins do.

Seems to me Crosby draws the top checkers while Staal often takes on the other teams’ scorers. In the home games against Ottawa he saw quite a lot of Alfredsson and Spezza, for example.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Apr 22, 2010 4:10 PM MDT up reply actions  

Pittsburgh’s strength is all down the middle, and in general their wingers are much weaker than the centers. Any of Crosby, Malkin, and Staal are capable of taking on all comers with whoever is available and generally coming out ahead (although Malkin was a minus player this year). Staal is the defensive guy almost by default but Crosby really upped his faceoff ability this year. It will be interesting to see who else got votes for the Selke, if a guy like Datsyuk can win it then other offensive stars could get recognized eventually as well.

by edm_euler on Apr 22, 2010 6:57 PM MDT up reply actions  

whatever happened to that “with/against” business anyway? hockeyanalysis was the first site i stumbled across looking for better stats.

by Passive Voice on Apr 22, 2010 10:04 PM MDT up reply actions  

That kicked off my Penner opus.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Apr 22, 2010 10:40 PM MDT up reply actions  

i remember that. i was wondering if hockeyanalysis still produce that stuff though. i haven’t been able to find it on their site for this year.

by Passive Voice on Apr 24, 2010 12:43 AM MDT up reply actions  

So RO, you’re saying that Kesler should get Hank’s Hart?

by antro on Apr 23, 2010 8:02 PM MDT up reply actions  

i sorta share the sentiment that kes was our mvp this year. really quietly (well, sorta) ridiculous year from him.

by Passive Voice on Apr 24, 2010 12:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

If someone from VAN is going to get the Hart, well it’s Kesler with a bullet.

But it’s plain obvious to me that Crosby deserves it, and with a bullet as well.

by R O on Apr 24, 2010 12:48 AM MDT up reply actions  

I’d probably submit a top 3 of Sami Pahlsson, Jordan Staal, and Mike Richards.

Based on the 6 stats used in the post, here’s how Pahlsson would rank.
QualComp: 0.053 2/12
ZoneStart: 33.1% 12/12
SH TOI/60: 2:40 1/12
GA On/60: 1.96 4/12
Rel Corsi: -4.2 10/12
Tk:Gv ratio: 2.2 2/12

The GAON/60 is the most interesting number if you look at the comparable players on Columbus for QualComp.

GAON/60
Sami Pahlsson 1.92 (2nd in QualComp)
Antoine Vermette 2.92 (5th in QualComp)
Kristian Huselius 2.97 (4th in QualComp)
Rick Nash 3.15 (1st in QualComp)
RJ Umberger 3.30 (3rd in QualComp)

Pahlsson benefited from an extremely high save percentage at EV, which you’d have to consider as being perhaps a fluke but his strong defensive track record would make you think there’s some substance behind it.

by Double DD on Apr 22, 2010 5:06 PM MDT reply actions  

Frankie Brimsek needs to step aside, Sami Pahlsson is the new Mister Zero.

GF On: 1.54
GA On: 1.96

GF Off: 2.77
GA Off: 2.96

So he cut down GA by a full goal, but offence was down a goal and a quarter. Ouch.

Btw, I would score him as #1 out of 12 in ZoneStart, based on toughness of assignment. Not sure how you could give him tougher minutes, but the only place he really suffers is Rel Corsi. The guy is all defence and Zero offence, but he’s real good at what he does. Still.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Apr 22, 2010 7:31 PM MDT up reply actions  

His inability to create offence makes him less valuable overall than most of the other players mentioned in the thread. But based simply on the award’s criteria, I find it hard to argue for anyone else.

by Double DD on Apr 22, 2010 9:36 PM MDT up reply actions  

Not the right thread to ask, but how high do you think is Staal’s offensive potential? Will be ever be a ppg player, even if he plays for some other team where say he is given all the chances possible to be 1st or 2nd line center?

by SumOil on Apr 22, 2010 5:35 PM MDT reply actions  

One way to look at it is to note that Staal ranked 50th in the NHL in even-strength points. Of those 50 guys, he had fewer powerplay points (5) than anybody above him; the only guys in single digits were Burrows (6) and Bergeron (8).

I don’t think it’s too big a stretch to assume that if he were given first unit PP time he could continue to score like a Top 50 player. 50th overall in the NHL this year had 61 points, or 0.75 P/G.

Now imagine taking Matt Cooke, Tyler Kennedy, Brooks Orpik and Mark Eaton off his line and replacing them with, I dunno, say Ales Hemsky, Dustin Penner, Ryan Whitney and Tom Gilbert. Can you envision his points total taking another bump? I sure can.

Note too that he’s still just 21. I’m not sure he’ll ever score like his older brother, but come the next Olympic cycle it’s not cut-n-dried that Eric would be the first Staal chosen. Or even the second, come to that. They’re very different players, but all of them are terrific.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Apr 22, 2010 7:19 PM MDT up reply actions  

They’re very different players, but three-fourths of them are terrific.

;)

Another thing to maybe consider with Jordan Staal is that he’s a very big dude. Conventional wisdom (though I’m not sure it’s ever been empirically checked) is that bigger dudes have somewhat longer development trajectories.

by Passive Voice on Apr 22, 2010 10:08 PM MDT up reply actions  

Yeah, PV, I was thinking in terms of the three NHL-based Staals all being terrific. The fourth one has a very long way to go to Earn his way into the conversation.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Apr 24, 2010 12:45 PM MDT up reply actions  

It’s Kesler or Bergeron for me. Kesler is remarkably good and he’s 24. The Canucks will soon be adding Cody Hodgson down the middle as well (assuming that whole “you’re not really injured!” thing blows over)

Bergeron knocked it our of the park too. I can’t imagine how good he’d be if he hadn’t lost a season to concussion woes.

by Kent Wilson on Apr 22, 2010 5:41 PM MDT reply actions  

My vote is for Jay McClement. Buddy is tasked with trying to climb mountains and face the best every night.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Apr 22, 2010 6:13 PM MDT reply actions  

Another excellent candidate. McClement is very underrated. I got an eyeful of that guy during the two games I saw STL live. Terrific skater, outstanding PKer. He got 12% more SH TOI than any other forward in the league, and STL led the league in PK% at 86.8%. Nice combination. Moreover, of the 635 faceoffs the Blues took while shorthanded, McClement took 420 of them. Practically 2/3.

5 on 5 he was +40/-41 on a non-playoff team playing the toughs.

I’ll be interested to know if he got anything more than a third-place vote from the local beat writer. He’s one of those dudes who slips right under the radar unless a sharp tack like Derek is in the conversation.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Apr 22, 2010 7:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

PS on McClement: He was terrific on the last Team Canada to claim the World Championship in 2007. I would love to see him added to the current team.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Apr 22, 2010 7:56 PM MDT up reply actions  

This article that I wrote is the only reason I noticed him in the first place.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Apr 22, 2010 8:03 PM MDT up reply actions  

SI writer Michael Farber saw fit to give him a 4th-place vote.

by Passive Voice on Apr 22, 2010 10:11 PM MDT up reply actions  

As far as Datsyuk goes

the SHTOI/Game is a little misleading too. Pittsburgh and Vancouver take a lot more penalties per game than the Red Wings did so the SHTOI/G will be down for Datsyuk even though he’s a good PKer

by Casey Richey on Apr 22, 2010 8:02 PM MDT reply actions  

True, but he ranks 8th among DET forwards in SH TOI/G. No matter how many penalties the Wings get or don’t get, Pavel is way down the pecking order. Fact is he has never once been in the top 4 PKers on his team, even in his two Selke years. Seems odd that such an elite defensive player isn’t getting primo minutes when his team is down a man.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Apr 22, 2010 8:25 PM MDT up reply actions  

If the Wings didn’t have plenty of forwards who can kill penalties, I’m he would play there much more. I think we can see who Babcock considers to be his top PK men by who he puts out in 5-on-3 situations; Zetterberg is first string, Datsyuk is second. So, Babcock goes to them when it’s really important, but figures it better to leverage their time at even-strength otherwise.

by BrianW on Apr 22, 2010 10:26 PM MDT up reply actions  

The lowered time shorthanded for Pavel Datsyuk has purely to do with keeping his overall ice time reasonable. He plays a lot at even strength and on the power play, and is quite capable of playing shorthanded as well. This year with Drew Miller, Patrick Eaves, and Darren Helm all emerging as competent regulars on the power play Babcock hasn’t needed to put Datsyuk out as much because he has a good dedicated penalty killing unit.

Last year Datsyuk played more often on the PK, I think, and it showed near the end of the season. He was more worn down.

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
Science nerd and proud of it!

by Baroque on Apr 23, 2010 4:58 AM MDT up reply actions  

I don’t think Staal’s even the best defensive forward on his team, nevermind one of the best ones in the league.

His nomination just reeks of confirmation bias… since he was drafted he’s had the franchise label tag on him and because he plays behind 2 superior players there’s the notion that he should win something.

Jesus, I still remember them giving the Selke to Draper…

by dawgbone98 on Apr 23, 2010 11:33 AM MDT reply actions  

Late request

How about Travis Zajac, Derek? I felt he was the best defensive forward on the Devils and this user at ILWT did a limited look but found that his GA/60 is fantastic compared to the rest of the league.

I’m curious how his other microstats stack up to the finalists.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Apr 24, 2010 8:48 AM MDT reply actions  

Hey John, condolences on the early ouster.

Using my 6-pack of defensive metrics Zajac placed as follows among the 13 Devils F with 40+ GP:

QualComp: 3rd, 3rd, and 4th
ZoneStart: 12th
SH TOI: 3rd
GA On/60: 2nd
Rel Corsi: 3rd
Tk:Gv ratio: 1st

Summed together this gives him 31 “points” (lower is better), compared to Staal’s 20, Datsyuk’s 27, and Kesler’s 32. Like Kesler, Zajac is seriously hurt by one category, in his case ZoneStart where it appears he is very heavily sheltered by Lemaire with 57.8% of his end zone faceoffs taking place in the O-zone. It’s interesting to note that the four most sheltered Devils in this category – Pelley, Zajac, Zharkov, and Parise – are also the top four on the team in fewest ES GA/60.

That said the method is crude, with one category (QualComp) essentially given triple value, five others given single (therefore equal) value and many other metrics given none at all. “Seen him good” has been given no value either. A more advanced system with more categories, weighted in order of perceived importance, might yield different results. No matter what, the formula itself would always be somewhat subjective and open to debate. Doubtless it could be improved, but no way could it be perfected. This is just a first crude attempt, advanced here for discussion purposes but certainly not as the be-all-and-end-all.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Apr 24, 2010 12:38 PM MDT up reply actions  

Thanks for taking a look at them, Bruce. I didn’t think Zajac would be among Selke finalists, but I did figure he’d be in the ballpark.

Devils in my heart! Devils in my mind! Devils in my eyes! Devils until I die!
In Lou We Trust - The New Jersey Devils SBN Blog

by John Fischer on Apr 26, 2010 1:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to SB Nation's Edmonton Oilers community.

Northwest Standings

GP W L OTL PT
Vancouver 53 33 15 5 71
Minnesota 53 25 20 8 58
Calgary 54 25 22 7 57
Colorado 55 27 25 3 57
Edmonton 54 21 28 5 47

(updated 2.9.2012 at 7:25 AM MST)

21 - 28 - 5

Lost 2

Clear Victory Standings

Western Conference

  1. Detroit Red Wings (23-7, .767)
  2. San Jose Sharks (13-5, .722)
  3. Vancouver Canucks (17-7, .708)
  4. St. Louis Blues (12-6, .667)
  5. Chicago Blackhawks (16-12, .571)
  6. Los Angeles Kings (10-9, .526)
  7. Nashville Predators (11-10, .524)
  8. Phoenix Coyotes (12-12, .500)
  9. Dallas Stars (11-15, .423)
  10. Anaheim Ducks (10-14, .417)
  11. Colorado Avalanche (9-13, .409)
  12. Edmonton Oilers (11-16, .407)
  13. Calgary Flames (9-15, .375)
  14. Minnesota Wild (7-13,.350)
  15. Columbus Blue Jackets (5-19, .208)

Eastern Conference

  1. Boston Bruins (21-4, .840)
  2. New York Rangers (18-8, .692)
  3. Pittsburgh Penguins (16-9, .640)
  4. Philadelphia Flyers (14-11, .560)
  5. Toronto Maple Leafs (14-12, .538)
  6. Washington Capitals (14-13, .519)
  7. Montreal Canadiens (11-11, .500)
  8. New Jersey Devils (10-12, .455)
  9. Ottawa Senators (10-13, .435)
  10. Winnipeg Jets (10-14, .417)
  11. Carolina Hurricanes (9-13, .409)
  12. Florida Panthers (7-12, .368)
  13. Buffalo Sabres (8-14, .364)
  14. Tampa Bay Lightning (9-20, .310)
  15. New York Islanders (6-14, .300)

Division Standings

  1. Central (52-39, .571)
  2. Northeast (49-39, .557)
  3. Atlantic (45-37, .549)
  4. Pacific (37-36, .507)
  5. Northwest (34-45, .430)
  6. Southeast (33-54, .379)


Managing Editor

Kurri_small Derek Zona

Laraque_horcoff_250x360_small Scott Reynolds

Columnists

Batman_small ryanbatty

0615pisani_small dawgbone98

Okc_shoulder_small Eric Rodgers

Neal_small Neal Livingston

Mike_small Mike Wntrz

Contributors

Newtwitter2_small Jonathan Willis

Mccurdycloseup_small Bruce McCurdy

Esaandstanley_small Benjamin Massey

Me_smyth_bobblehead3__1_of_1__small Lisa McRitchie

Small Triumph44

Gyi0062208469-bobrovsky_small Chase W

Small JaredL