Dustin Penner Joins Wayne Gretzky In The Record Books
by Derek Zona on Apr 18, 2010 10:30 AM PDT
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16 comments
Back in December, The Copper & Blue looked at Dustin Penner's start and saw that he was on pace to do something that only Wayne Gretzky had been able to accomplish as a member of the Edmonton Oilers -- lead the team in Goals, Assists, Points, and +/-. Gretzky did this four different times from 1981-1987, and did one better. Gretzky led the league in those four categories four times. As Bruce said in the comments section:
99 led not just the Oilers but the NHL in all 4 categories in 4 different seasons between 1981-87. He lost the +/- crown to Charlie Huddy in ’82-83 and Mark Howe in ’85-86, and Jari Kurri led the league in goals that same ’85-86 campaign, but in ’81-82, ’83-84, ’84-85, and ’86-87 Gretzky swept the lot.
So Dustin Penner's incredible season wasn't just a great personal accomplishment, it was historic. The Oilers haven't had much to hang their hats on this season, but this is certainly worth recognizing. For the first time since 1986-1987, one player led the Edmonton Oilers in all four categories.
Lowetide recapped Penner's season thusly:
In the fall I wondered if he could deliver enough offense to stay on the 1line, and by spring I'm convinced he could be the cornerstone of a 1line for years to come. This was a wonderful season delivered by a player in his prime and with many years of similar level production straight ahead.
In additional to the traditional stats, Penner swept the Oilers Advanced Stats categories as well. He led the team in PTS/60, +-ON/60, Corsi, and Scoring Chances Differential. He also led the team in Shots. Nearly every statistical category that that both traditionalists and microstats adherents track was dominated by Dustin Penner.
Bruce points out that Penner really didn't lead the Oilers in +/- as both Ryan Whitney and Ales Hemsky outpaced him there, but neither player came close to playing enough qualifying games to be considered among the team leaders. Bruce is calling this an asterisk, but I don't see it that way as the rules for statistical qualification are have been in place for a long time. Besides given the way this season went, more games for either of those two may have meant long runs of minus play.
Even with the asterisk, Penner becomes the fifth Oiler to lead the team in Goals, Assists and Points. He would keep company with Mark Messier, Vincent Damphousse, Doug Weight and Ryan Smyth, but that only matters to Bruce.
Penner's historical season places him on some rare ice, with only The Great One to keep him company.
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Bruce points out that Penner really didn’t lead the Oilers in +/- as both Ryan Whitney and Ales Hemsky outpaced him there, but neither player came close to playing enough qualifying games to be considered among the team leaders. Bruce is calling this an asterisk, but I don’t see it that way as the rules for statistical qualification are have been in place for a long time.
Whitney was +7 as an Oiler (19 GP) and -6 as a Duck, so I don’t recognize his +7 as meaningful in 2009-10. He wound up the season +1. Hemsky on the other hand finished the season officially at +7 in 22 GP.
As far as I know the lower limits for statistical qualification are for “per game” type stats, i.e. Colin MacDonald “led” the Oilers with 0.5 G/GP, but 1 G in 2 GP doesn’t really cut it. Whereas +/- is a cumulative stat. It’s possible for a player to lead his team in goals despite only playing, say, less than half the schedule, and he still leads the team because he has the biggest number. Are you sure a similar principle doesn’t apply to +/-?
Even with the asterisk, Penner becomes the fifth Oiler to lead the team in Goals, Assists and Points. He would keep company with Mark Messier, Vincent Damphousse, Doug Weight and Ryan Smyth, but that only matters to Bruce.
Actually he would be the seventh. You forgot Gretzky on the above list (who led the team in all three categories 8 times in his 9 years) and also Hemsky, who in 2008-09 was tied for the team lead in goals as well as leading outright in assists and points.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
Penner <3
I don’t think Hemsky’s +/- counts. What was Penner 22 games in? Honest question. He likely was lower, but I’m not sure. Really, the team completely bombed part way through the season and Hemsky missed most of the disaster. His +7 is a bit tainted, in my mind. :P Just enjoy and recognize the fact that Penner had a pretty damn good season.. no need to question it. But I suppose if you’re dealing with records here, you have to consider all areas, granted.
Ok, so I just checked, for argument’s sake…. Penner was +11 in that time Hemsky was +7. Enough said?
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Wow. Penner went -6 when Hemsky wasn’t around.
Wow.
Is it too early to call the last sixty games of 2009-10 the “Ales Hemsky Death March”?
by Benjamin Massey on Apr 19, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions
or...
Sorry, not sure how to edit, but if you want to be anal about it, he was +10 at the same date of the season of Hemsky’s last game.
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Yeah, it’s a moot point for sure. If Hemsky had played the other 60 games his +/- would have taken a hit. Or, Penner’s plus might have been a lot higher with a hot Hemmer on his flank. All I’m saying is it’s bit of an asterisk. Both of these statements are correct:
- Ales Hemsky led the Oilers with +7
- Dustin Penner led the Oilers with +6 (* among Oilers with minimum 40 GP).
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Apr 18, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
PS
Not for a moment am I questioning that Penner had a great season.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Apr 18, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
You don’t need the asterisk. Hemsky didn’t qualify.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
I don’t know if this is conclusive, but according to the nhl.com stats page Hemsky does qualify. If you do a player search for +/- you get 879 results because there is no qualification minimum compared to only 396 results for shooting percentage where the minimum does apply. IMO, there’s no asterisk by Penner’s name in the +/- leader category because Penner isn’t the leader.
by Scott Reynolds on Apr 18, 2010 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know if this is conclusive, but according to the nhl.com stats page Hemsky does qualify. If you do a player search for +/- you get 879 results because there is no qualification minimum compared to only 396 results for shooting percentage where the minimum does apply.
It’s not conclusive. I believe the NHL requires a minimum of 60 games to lead in any category, but the plus-minus award is definitely a minimum of 60 games. Hemsky is not a qualifying player. Penner led the team.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Well, I’m not sure that Wikipedia and Rauzulu’s Street are necessarily any better as a source of information, especially considering I’m not sure the award they link to actually exists anymore. I’m pretty sure Hemsky qualifies and leads the team.
by Scott Reynolds on Apr 19, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, it’s still an open question as to whether or not the award exists (the Caps certainly haven’t promoted Schultz as the “winner”) although that’s the first mention I’ve seen of a 2008 winner. It also doesn’t answer whether the Bud Light trophy is also the league standard. Either way, I can see that historically they’ve set the sixty game threshold for the award which I guess is good enough if you’ve decided that you want to laud Penner. It just looks like special pleading or a technicality to call a guy with the second-best +/- on the team the team leader. I mean, if I said Petr Sykora was the team leader in goals in 2006-07 instead of Ryan Smyth, surely that would look a bit silly. It sure isn’t intuitive.
by Scott Reynolds on Apr 19, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
In addition, did you know that Ethan Moreau and Jason Strudwick finished in a tie for seventh on the Oilers in plus/minus? That’s actually pretty good! We should sign those boys to contract extensions!
by Scott Reynolds on Apr 19, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
hmm.
Extreme example.. but.. if a team is full of minus players (and no plus players), is a guy that hasn’t played that season the plus/minus leader since he’s even? :P
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I think it speaks volumes about your team if your leader in plus/minus is: Vladimir Vujtek, 3 GP (even). Guess how good that team was! Using the 60 GP threshold the team leader was: Matt Johnson, 64 GP (-11). Way to go 1999-00 Thrashers!
by Scott Reynolds on Apr 19, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Jets take a 2-1 series lead. These kids may be onto something here.
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