Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Identifying The 19th-Best Team In Baseball

Dustin Penner - 9th Most Valuable Skater In The League

SAN JOSE, CA - JANUARY 16: Dustin Penner #27 of the Edmonton Oilers stands on the ice during their game against the San Jose Sharks at HP Pavilion on January 16, 2010 in San Jose, California. (Photo by Ezra Shaw/Getty Images)

Content © 2010 Getty Images All rights reserved.  via cdn.picapp.com

Dirk Hoag at On The Forecheck has been crunching numbers to figure out who the most valuable players in the NHL are this year.  The results are not exactly shocking for this correspondent - Dustin Penner is the 9th-most valuable skater in the league.

Star-divide

Dirk's methodology is here:

The idea here is to leverage the Rating statistics from Behind the Net, which sums up the net influence on Goals For & Against per 60 minutes of play, and convert those into counting stats based on the cumulative ice time and games played for each individual. For instance, Alex Ovechkin's presence in 5-on-5 action has resulted in a net of +35.7 goals for Washington, compared to how the Capitals fare when he is on the bench. His influence on the power play is almost as large (+31), and he is a pretty average PK man.

The Penalty +/- Impact reflects the influence on Goals For & Against from a player drawing or committing penalties, and thus creating PP or PK situations for his team. Using a previous estimate by Alan Ryder, each power play is worth 0.153 goals, reflecting the increased likelihood that your team is going to score (with a PK costing the same amount).

Sum up the 5-on-5, PP, PK and Penalty +/- columns, and you get a Total Impact that each player has had on Goals For & Against over the course of the season. Most MVP discussions focus solely on offensive contributions, and ignore the defensive side of the game.

Remember - these measures reflect the influence of a given player on the performance of his team. They are not meant to be used a direct comparison of players on different teams to say "who is better". It is, rather, "who is more valuable to his team". Yes, this analysis does leave goaltenders out of the equation, but we can argue over the Vezina another day.

 

It's something that not even Oilers fans know - Penner is one of only four Oiler players in the black in scoring chances, only one of three Oilers in the black in Corsi, the leader on the team in shots, he's dragging almost-NHL-like performance out of his teammates, and he's fifth in the league in relative Corsi among forwards.

Dirk flipped it around and found the least valuable players in the league, and once again, it's not a surprise to Oiler fans - Steve Staios has been the 6th-least valuable skater in the league this season.  That must be extremely disheartening for Flames fans to read and I feel badly for them.  Surprising to most Oiler fans, however, would be the fact that Ethan Moreau didn't make the list as well.

Comment 10 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Surprising to most Oiler fans, however, would be the fact that Ethan Moreau didn’t make the list as well.

Methodology doesn’t seem to include cap cost, where penalty was taken, and post-game interviews.

In other words flawed at properly ranking thecaptainmoreau.

by till_horcoff_is_coach on Mar 18, 2010 2:05 PM MDT reply actions  

I think PDO is rescuing him. Has to be.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Mar 18, 2010 4:53 PM MDT up reply actions  

Penner should have been on Team Canada.

by David Staples @ The Cult of Hockey on Mar 18, 2010 2:54 PM MDT reply actions  

Dustin Penner is the 9th-most valuable skater in the league.
They are not meant to be used a direct comparison of players on different teams to say “who is better”.

So yeah. He’s definitely not saying that Dustin Penner is the 9th most valuable skater in the league. He is saying that Dustin Penner is by far the best skater on the Oilers this season and that the gap between Penner and the rest of the team is one of the biggest in the league. And I can agree with that.

As you mention in your comment above, there’s no use of contextual measures (percentages and situations and so forth) so I’m really not sure how much it tells us. Also, IMO, the methodology may overvalue the contribution of drawing/taking penalties. If a power play is worth 0.153 goals, crediting that whole number toward the guy who drew the penalty doesn’t seem like the way to go. He ends up counting those goals twice when he adds in the PP/PK stuff.

by Scott Reynolds on Mar 18, 2010 5:38 PM MDT reply actions  

I’m pretty sure he’s saying that Penner is a top 10 forward in the league.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Mar 18, 2010 7:51 PM MDT up reply actions  

I can’t tell if you’re serious… but… I’m pretty sure he’s not. Dirk! If Derek and I are having a real conversation, come over here and solve this!

by Scott Reynolds on Mar 18, 2010 9:58 PM MDT up reply actions  

Considering his qualteam, he might be a top 5 forward in the league.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Mar 18, 2010 10:23 PM MDT up reply actions  

I still can’t tell if you’re serious. If so, I’m happy to talk about this but that kind of statement just seems ridiculous but you also really do like Penner a lot so… so yeah… are you serious about this? Simple yes or no here would be very helpful.

by Scott Reynolds on Mar 18, 2010 11:52 PM MDT up reply actions  

Hes not saying hes a top 10 forward in the league, he is saying is top 10 most valuable to his team.

[quote] Remember – these measures reflect the influence of a given player on the performance of his team. They are not meant to be used a direct comparison of players on different teams to say “who is better”. It is, rather, “who is more valuable to his team”. [/quote]

P.S. (Apparently I dont know how to quote here, but thats from the article)

by VanillaAcid on Mar 19, 2010 7:39 AM MDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to SB Nation's Edmonton Oilers community.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Dukeriver2_small
A Narrative Revisited: Hemsky 83

Recent FanPosts

Small
Ken Campbell Wants to Make You Angry
Small
Oilers Worst (Quiet) Trade Ever
Ovechkin1_small
How Ryan Smyth Stunted Magnus Paajarvi
2012-01-21-012338_small
Milan Kytnar Loaned To SM-liiga Club HPK Hämeenlinna
N512640129_624767_3878_small
Jay Feaster Revisited : How do the Oilers get back to competing?
Ovechkin1_small
Grading Tambellini (free agent signings)
Ovechkin1_small
Grading Steve Tambellini (Trades)
Mets002_small
Reaching out to The Copper & Blue: Community research project
N512640129_624767_3878_small
Now and Then: the more things change...

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Northwest Standings

GP W L OTL PT
Vancouver 52 32 15 5 69
Minnesota 52 25 19 8 58
Calgary 53 24 22 7 55
Colorado 54 26 25 3 55
Edmonton 53 21 27 5 47

(updated 2.7.2012 at 7:26 AM MST)

21 - 27 - 5

Lost 1

Clear Victory Standings

Western Conference

  1. Detroit Red Wings (22-7, .759)
  2. San Jose Sharks (13-5, .722)
  3. Vancouver Canucks (17-7, .708)
  4. St. Louis Blues (11-6, .647)
  5. Chicago Blackhawks (16-11, .593)
  6. Nashville Predators (11-10, .524)
  7. Los Angeles Kings (9-9, .500)
  8. Phoenix Coyotes (11-12, .478)
  9. Dallas Stars (11-14, .440)
  10. Edmonton Oilers (11-15, .423)
  11. Anaheim Ducks (10-14, .417)
  12. Colorado Avalanche (8-13, .381)
  13. Calgary Flames (9-15, .375)
  14. Minnesota Wild (7-13,.350)
  15. Columbus Blue Jackets (5-19, .208)

Eastern Conference

  1. Boston Bruins (21-3, .875)
  2. New York Rangers (18-8, .692)
  3. Pittsburgh Penguins (16-9, .640)
  4. Philadelphia Flyers (14-11, .560)
  5. Toronto Maple Leafs (14-12, .538)
  6. Washington Capitals (13-13, .500)
  7. Montreal Canadiens (11-11, .500)
  8. Ottawa Senators (10-12, .455)
  9. New Jersey Devils (10-12, .455)
  10. Winnipeg Jets (10-14, .417)
  11. Carolina Hurricanes (9-13, .409)
  12. Florida Panthers (7-11, .389)
  13. Buffalo Sabres (7-14, .333)
  14. Tampa Bay Lightning (9-19, .321)
  15. New York Islanders (6-14, .300)

Division Standings

  1. Central (50-38, .568)
  2. Northeast (49-38, .563)
  3. Atlantic (45-37, .549)
  4. Pacific (36-36, .500)
  5. Northwest (33-44, .429)
  6. Southeast (33-53, .384)


Managing Editor

Kurri_small Derek Zona

Laraque_horcoff_250x360_small Scott Reynolds

Columnists

Batman_small ryanbatty

0615pisani_small dawgbone98

Okc_shoulder_small Eric Rodgers

Neal_small Neal Livingston

Mike_small Mike Wntrz

Contributors

Newtwitter2_small Jonathan Willis

Mccurdycloseup_small Bruce McCurdy

Esaandstanley_small Benjamin Massey

Me_smyth_bobblehead3__1_of_1__small Lisa McRitchie

Small Triumph44

Gyi0062208469-bobrovsky_small Chase W

Small JaredL