The Copper & Blue: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: MLB Trade Rumors: Phillies, Astros close on Roy Oswalt deal

Dustin Penner - 9th Most Valuable Skater In The League

SAN JOSE, CA - JANUARY 16: Dustin Penner #27 of the Edmonton Oilers stands on the ice during their game against the San Jose Sharks at HP Pavilion on January 16, 2010 in San Jose, California. (Photo by Ezra Shaw/Getty Images)

Content © 2010 Getty Images All rights reserved.  via cdn.picapp.com

SAN JOSE, CA - JANUARY 16: Dustin Penner #27 of the Edmonton Oilers stands on the ice during their game against the San Jose Sharks at HP Pavilion on January 16, 2010 in San Jose, California. (Photo by Ezra Shaw/Getty Images) Content © 2010 Getty Images All rights reserved. via cdn.picapp.com

Dirk Hoag at On The Forecheck has been crunching numbers to figure out who the most valuable players in the NHL are this year.  The results are not exactly shocking for this correspondent - Dustin Penner is the 9th-most valuable skater in the league.

Star-divide

Dirk's methodology is here:

The idea here is to leverage the Rating statistics from Behind the Net, which sums up the net influence on Goals For & Against per 60 minutes of play, and convert those into counting stats based on the cumulative ice time and games played for each individual. For instance, Alex Ovechkin's presence in 5-on-5 action has resulted in a net of +35.7 goals for Washington, compared to how the Capitals fare when he is on the bench. His influence on the power play is almost as large (+31), and he is a pretty average PK man.

The Penalty +/- Impact reflects the influence on Goals For & Against from a player drawing or committing penalties, and thus creating PP or PK situations for his team. Using a previous estimate by Alan Ryder, each power play is worth 0.153 goals, reflecting the increased likelihood that your team is going to score (with a PK costing the same amount).

Sum up the 5-on-5, PP, PK and Penalty +/- columns, and you get a Total Impact that each player has had on Goals For & Against over the course of the season. Most MVP discussions focus solely on offensive contributions, and ignore the defensive side of the game.

Remember - these measures reflect the influence of a given player on the performance of his team. They are not meant to be used a direct comparison of players on different teams to say "who is better". It is, rather, "who is more valuable to his team". Yes, this analysis does leave goaltenders out of the equation, but we can argue over the Vezina another day.

 

It's something that not even Oilers fans know - Penner is one of only four Oiler players in the black in scoring chances, only one of three Oilers in the black in Corsi, the leader on the team in shots, he's dragging almost-NHL-like performance out of his teammates, and he's fifth in the league in relative Corsi among forwards.

Dirk flipped it around and found the least valuable players in the league, and once again, it's not a surprise to Oiler fans - Steve Staios has been the 6th-least valuable skater in the league this season.  That must be extremely disheartening for Flames fans to read and I feel badly for them.  Surprising to most Oiler fans, however, would be the fact that Ethan Moreau didn't make the list as well.

0 recs  |  Comment 10 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Surprising to most Oiler fans, however, would be the fact that Ethan Moreau didn’t make the list as well.

Methodology doesn’t seem to include cap cost, where penalty was taken, and post-game interviews.

In other words flawed at properly ranking thecaptainmoreau.

by till_horcoff_is_coach on Mar 18, 2010 1:05 PM PDT reply actions  

I think PDO is rescuing him. Has to be.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Mar 18, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Penner should have been on Team Canada.

by David Staples @ The Cult of Hockey on Mar 18, 2010 1:54 PM PDT reply actions  

Dustin Penner is the 9th-most valuable skater in the league.
They are not meant to be used a direct comparison of players on different teams to say “who is better”.

So yeah. He’s definitely not saying that Dustin Penner is the 9th most valuable skater in the league. He is saying that Dustin Penner is by far the best skater on the Oilers this season and that the gap between Penner and the rest of the team is one of the biggest in the league. And I can agree with that.

As you mention in your comment above, there’s no use of contextual measures (percentages and situations and so forth) so I’m really not sure how much it tells us. Also, IMO, the methodology may overvalue the contribution of drawing/taking penalties. If a power play is worth 0.153 goals, crediting that whole number toward the guy who drew the penalty doesn’t seem like the way to go. He ends up counting those goals twice when he adds in the PP/PK stuff.

by Scott Reynolds on Mar 18, 2010 4:38 PM PDT reply actions  

I’m pretty sure he’s saying that Penner is a top 10 forward in the league.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Mar 18, 2010 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can’t tell if you’re serious… but… I’m pretty sure he’s not. Dirk! If Derek and I are having a real conversation, come over here and solve this!

by Scott Reynolds on Mar 18, 2010 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Considering his qualteam, he might be a top 5 forward in the league.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Mar 18, 2010 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I still can’t tell if you’re serious. If so, I’m happy to talk about this but that kind of statement just seems ridiculous but you also really do like Penner a lot so… so yeah… are you serious about this? Simple yes or no here would be very helpful.

by Scott Reynolds on Mar 18, 2010 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hes not saying hes a top 10 forward in the league, he is saying is top 10 most valuable to his team.

[quote] Remember – these measures reflect the influence of a given player on the performance of his team. They are not meant to be used a direct comparison of players on different teams to say “who is better”. It is, rather, “who is more valuable to his team”. [/quote]

P.S. (Apparently I dont know how to quote here, but thats from the article)

by VanillaAcid on Mar 19, 2010 6:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to SB Nation's Edmonton Oilers community.
Start posting about the Oilers »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Kurri_small
Fan Posts and Fan Shots: Community Guidelines
Laraque_horcoff_250x360_small
The Downtown Arena
Kurri_small
Nikolai Khabibulin's Trial Postponed Again
Laraque_horcoff_250x360_small
Those Darned Chicago Blackhawks
Esaandstanley_small
Gilbert Brule is a Good Player and a Good Guy
Image0221022_small
Khabibulin Insurance
Small
Oilers Pick Hall + Other Draft stuff
Kurri_small
SB Nation's NHL Draft Prospect Corner
Small
Fraser
Small
Colin Fraser Traded to Oilers for 6 Round Pick

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Northwest Standings

GP W L OTL PT
Vancouver 82 49 28 5 103
Colorado 82 43 30 9 95
Calgary 82 40 32 10 90
Minnesota 82 38 36 8 84
Edmonton 82 27 47 8 62

(updated 4.12.2010 at 6:21 AM PDT)

Oilers Stats Leaders

Stat

Forwards

Defense

TOI/G:

Horcoff (19:23)

Gilbert (22:24)

ESTOI/G:

Horcoff (14:24)

Visnovsky (17:14)

Points:

Penner (63)

Visnovsky (32)

Goals:

Penner (32)

Visnovsky (10)

Assists:

Penner (31)

Gilbert (23)

EV+/- /15

Penner (.152)

Smid (.090)

Shots:

Penner (203)

Gilbert (96)

Corsi/15:

Penner(.405)

Visnovsky (.460)

SCF/15:

Penner (5.241)

Visnovsky (4.517)

SCA/15:

Stortini (3.850)

Gilbert (4.360)

SCDiff/15:

Penner (.448)

Visnovsky (.122)

SBNation.com Recent Stories

Washington Capitals' Tomas Fleischmann, of the Czech Republic, takes a check from Ottawa Senators' Chris Neil during the second period of an NHL hockey game in Ottawa, Thursday, Feb. 11, 2010. (AP Photo/The Canadian Press, Fred Chartrand) +53 updates

NHL Free Agency: Fleischmann Stays In DC, Grebeshkov Bolts To Russia

FILE - In this May 7, 2009, file photo, Milan Michalek, front left, of the Czech Republic attacks Swedish goalie Jonas Gustavsson, right, during a quarterfinal at the Ice Hockey World Championship in Bern, Switzerland. Sweden's Carl Gunnarsson is seen behind on left. The Toronto Maple Leafs landed Gustavsson with a one-year contract on Tuesday, July 7, 2009. The 24-year-old netminder, nicknamed "The Monster," was also heavily pursued by Dallas, San Jose and Colorado. (AP Photo/Anja Niedringhaus, File) link

Euro Hockey For Dummies: A Primer On How European Hockey Leagues Work

PITTSBURGH - JULY 27:  Pittsburgh Penguins President David Morehouse addresses the media at the 2011 Bridgestone NHL Winter Classic press conference on July 27 2010 at Heinz Field in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania.  (Photo by Justin K. Aller/Getty Images) +2 updates

Penguins, NHL Unveil 2011 Winter Classic Logo At Pittsburgh's Heinz Field

More from SBNation.com >


Managing Editor

Kurri_small Derek Zona

Columnists

Willis_small Jonathan Willis

Laraque_horcoff_250x360_small Scott Reynolds

Zorg_small Bruce McCurdy

Esaandstanley_small Benjamin Massey

Columnists Abroad

N168302557_2381_small Jonathan Hord