Day Four (Eight): The Beatings Did Not Continue

by Scott Reynolds on Feb 19, 2010 10:08 AM MST

Consider this the open Olympic thread. Want to leave some thoughts on a non-hockey Olympic event? This is the place. My non-hockey moment of the day yesterday came when Anja Paerson returned from a horrendous fall in the downhill to tackle the same course yesterday in the combined event. She posted a pretty good time in the downhill portion and did even better in the slalom to earn herself a bronze medal; it was the sixth Olympic medal of her career which ties the record for female skiiers. On a day when at least one skier pulled out of the race because the course was too dangerous, that's an incredible demonstration of courage and the will to compete. Congratulations to Anja!

Now if only our Canadian hockey team demonstrated that same will and desire to win. Immediately after the 3-2 SO win over the Swiss I thought the Canadians had played an okay game and were stymied largely by a hot goaltender. They weren't overshooting or overpassing, just underlucking. And to a large degree, I still think that's true. But after watching the brilliant match between the Slovaks and Russians I did conclude that the Canadians will need to have a more physical and committed game. That doesn't mean going after the big hits a la JFJ. It means a strong physical forecheck that’s intent on pressuring the puck carrier and turning opposition possession into a puck battle every time and coming back hard on the backcheck at every opportunity. Like Marian Hossa.

After the Canadians "won" against the Swiss it seemed all was lost but Marian Hossa scored the tying goal against the Russians mid-way through the third period and the Slovaks won in overtime. It was a fantastic game. As an added bonus it gave the Canadians new hope for a finish of first or second overall if the Russians can beat the Czech Republic. After a wonderful first day both the Canadians and Russians had a real bad day three. The Americans, meanwhile, quietly held serve with a 6-1 drubbing of Norway. It had been 3-1 with six minutes left but the Americans popped three goals to close out the game and rack up the appropriate goal differential. And come to think of it, that makes five teams who played with at least as much physicality and commitment as the Canadians did last night.

Today the Swedes take on Belarus, trying to avenge their loss from 2002 better than the Canadians avenged their loss from 2006 to the Swiss. The Finns get the Germans, who looked very good in a losing effort to Sweden. With the Russians and Canadians both losing points yesterday the Finns and Swedes have an excellent opportunity to take first overall. The other game involves the Czechs and Latvians and should result in a sound thrashing by the Czechs but I'll be cheering hard for an upset.

Schedule:

Belarus v. Sweden 1:00 p.m. MST

Czech Republic v. Latvia 5:30 p.m. MST

Finland v. Germany 10:00 p.m. MST

Overall Standings:

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Sensical standings lead to teams going for it in regulation. Or at least that was how I saw the last five minutes of CAN-SUI. Imagine that.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.

by Doogie2K on Feb 19, 2010 10:16 AM MST reply actions

I love it!!! The Swiss earned their point, but they earned it from their opponent, not some imaginary pool of “bonus” points. Canada paid the price for not winning the game outright, and that is EXACTLY how it should be. Serves us right.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Feb 19, 2010 11:51 AM MST up reply actions

That’s exactly why I like the 3-2-1-0 system. Beat a team handily? Great! You get full credit for it. Eke out a victory? Meh, you’ll have to settle for less. Play for OT from the opening faceoff? Then you don’t have a chance of getting full standings points. It’s all about the way the incentive changes the in-game tactics.

by edm_euler on Feb 19, 2010 12:43 PM MST up reply actions

I’m with you , brother.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Feb 19, 2010 4:17 PM MST up reply actions

Also, Marianne St-Gelais was adorable picking up her silver medal, jumping up and down on the podium like a little girl. I love how pumped the athletes get.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.

by Doogie2K on Feb 19, 2010 10:17 AM MST reply actions

A very hot, 20-year-old little girl, but yeah. It’s fun to watch.

Also, one question which no reporter ever asked but it sure would have come up if the clock had rubbed the other way: WTF was Christine Nesbitt doing at the finish line? It reminded me of sliding into first base — points for effort but not necessarily the quickest way to get there. Every time I see that replay I find myself saying WTF?

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Feb 19, 2010 11:53 AM MST up reply actions

The skaters are trained to go toe-first into the gate so the sensor picks it up. I know in the 500m they reset everyone’s times based on the camera, but I don’t think they do that in subsequent distances. Yeah, maybe she misjudged her stride and did it early, but I see why she did it.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.

by Doogie2K on Feb 19, 2010 8:40 PM MST up reply actions

Olympics - Teamwork in an individual sport

Audio transcripts from Bodie Miller’s run from today’s ongoing men’s Super G of something I found remarkable. Maybe more attentive ski fans than I can confirm if this is commonplace.

First Brian Stemmle as Miller reached the first interval timing -0.4 seconds ahead of fellow American Andrew Weibrecht:

“We have a challenge folks, challenging his teammate Weibrecht. I’m sure Weibrecht got on that radio, told Bode Miller some of the intracacies of this course.”

Later, Gerry Dobson with the (outstanding!) call of Miller’s charge to the finish line:

“Bode Miller … last little jump … holding his line … Will it be Bode Miller taking the lead from his teammate Andrew Weibrecht?! YESSS!!! Only by 3 hundredths, but it is Americans first and second, Miller followed by Andrew Weibrecht!”

What arched my eyebrow was the suggestion that Weibrecht and Miller had been in direct voice contact with each other. Really? I realize they have common coaches and it is in the team’s interest to have each skier working with the best available info, but from Weibrecht’s personal perspective it would require directing aiding a rival. Surely a single good tip might be worth, what, a tenth of a second? Miller beat Weibrecht by -0.03. It could have cost Weibrecht the race. As it stands the moment I write this, he’s been knocked down a step on the podium (Aksel Lund Svindal subsequently beat both of them), and if one more competitor squeaks by Weibrecht might have talked his way right off the podium. But as it stands, Americans currently rank 2nd and 3rd, and if Miller had been that tenth of a second slower he’d be sitting in 4th. But Weibrecht would have silver.

It’s not an exact analogy because of simultaneity issues, but I liken it to two Formula One teammates communicating with each other, rather than through a central authority. Surely the skiers might communicate information through their coaches, but directly? I’m keen to know if Stemmle simply misspoke/oversimplified or if that’s really how it works.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Feb 19, 2010 1:51 PM MST reply actions

My guess from generally following the sport would be that the team a) discussed the course during and after the training runs (they do several) and b) if there were particular bad patches/dangerous areas that may have been mentioned. I seriously doubt any other significant discussion would have taken place unless the course had altered in character since the training runs.

I suspect Dobson is projecting.

by rsm on Feb 19, 2010 3:51 PM MST up reply actions

A couple more thoughts came to mind while prepping breakfast for the kids:

1) Is it even logistically possible? Do they have in-helmet mics/headphones? If not their respective start numbers would matter, i.e. Weinrich going early enough that Miller would still not be prepping for his run at the top etc.

2) I can see a runner helping if there is a clear medal candidate, not if they are directly competing for the medals in a sport where they can’t cooperate directly to improve both of their chances. Cross-country skiing sees a fair bit of this kind of cooperation in the events that have group starts – even among competing countries who simply train together.

by rsm on Feb 19, 2010 4:03 PM MST up reply actions

Breakfast?

Where are you?

Stemmle never said anything about communications gear in helmets and such, but he distinctly said “got on that radio”. Weibrecht went 3rd, Miller 11th, there must have been 15-20 minutes real time between their runs.

In the end if Miller had been an eighth of a second slower he would have finished 7th instead of 2nd, so a little help potentially goes a long way.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Feb 19, 2010 4:12 PM MST up reply actions

I’m in Japan, which explains most of my odd posting habits and the desire to listen to radio rather than watch things on the telly, I doubt the Japanese announcers are as bad as McGuire for color commentary, but their human interest stuff is as bad as NBCs.

I don’t know what the time from bottom to top + prep is, but 15-20min would only allow coaches with radios/cell phones to communicate up and down the hill, if they have/are allowed the means (which I don’t think they would be).
That being said, an eight of a second can really be boiled down to a couple of tighter and lower turns or a better managed jump. He could have also gotten lucky with the run being slightly harder, thus giving him a slight speed edge.
Considering that only .12s separated the 2nd through 7th place you have to assume that they all had pretty optimal scouting on the run and that the winner, .28s up on the second place, did something differently or had better scouting of the run than the others, or got more lucky.
I think my conclusion, after taking a closer look at it, is that it’s so tight, and the top guys are all so close in skill, that virtually any minor error or improvement over ‘average’ in the top 8 would have caused them to switch places. I really don’t think any communication would have made a difference either, because the gap in time was so small and the time to assimilate whatever the data was is probably insufficient compared to the practice runs etc. I’ve seen cases where potentially it could have mattered before, but in this case the conditions weren’t hugely variable and the top 8 all could have taken any of the medals. Again, I suspect Dobson projecting and providing dumb narrative to fill in the blank.

And with that I suspect I’ve written more about an aside comment by a TV commentator than I ever wanted to, but hey, what else is there to ponder while attending the daycare’s biannual parents’ day.

by rsm on Feb 19, 2010 9:19 PM MST reply actions

Thanks. For the record, it was Brian Stemmle (former skier, “analyst”) who made the comment I’m questioning. Gerry Dobson (professional broadcaster, “play by play” guy) just called the race, and did it well.

How are people enjoying Daisuke Takahashi’s bronze in Japan? Happy with it, or disappointed it wasn’t a brighter sheen?

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Feb 19, 2010 10:29 PM MST up reply actions

There is a fair bit of anti-media groundswell at the moment (according to my wife who pays more attention to the Japanese side of things). People are unhappy with the amount of pressure the media is putting on the athletes. On the other hand I think most people are very pleased with the performances. Outside of figure skating they no longer have any major stars. Their traditional strong disciplines of ski jumping, Nordic combined and the speed skating sprint (although there seems to be a couple of up-and-coming stars here) just aren’t what they used to be, so I think most people, outside of the usual die-hard fanatics look at the results in a positive light.

by rsm on Feb 19, 2010 11:44 PM MST up reply actions

The Petra Majdic story gets more amazing by the day. She ran four cross-country sprints with four broken ribs and a collapsed lung for goodness sake, and won a bronze. An uplifting, almost transcendent story, other than the fallout about lack of safety on the course and mutterings about legal action of course. These Games have claimed more than their share of victims already.

But Petra’s courage and performance are both mind-boggling. This is one of the most amazing feats I’ve ever seen in sport.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Feb 19, 2010 10:50 PM MST reply actions

Jesus Christ. How is she not dead? How do you run a cross-country race with one lung?

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.

by Doogie2K on Feb 20, 2010 1:16 AM MST up reply actions

For a minute there, it looked like Melissa Collingworth’s failure on the skeleton track would take centre stage in the media coverage of Day 8, but then Martins Dukers did the same thing and handed Canada another gold medal. Congrats to Jon Montgomery.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.

by Doogie2K on Feb 20, 2010 1:18 AM MST reply actions

Fortunately for poor Melissa, I seem to have forgotten her name was actually Hollingsworth. I blame the time. Still, good show by her in the first three heats, tough break on the last one.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.

by Doogie2K on Feb 20, 2010 1:28 AM MST up reply actions

Finland v. Germany 10:00 p.m. MST

If Finland had one more stalwart D, they might be a favorite.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Feb 20, 2010 7:34 AM MST reply actions

Wow, Sunday is going to be a beauty of a day for hockey fans. Canada-USA, Sweden-Finland, Czech Rep.-Russia — three of the longest standing and best rivalries in the international game. Awesome.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Feb 20, 2010 10:56 AM MST up reply actions

The winner of that Sweden-Finland matchup is your number one seed and if the Czechs can upset the Russians, someone is going to be a really, really unhappy number two seed.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Feb 20, 2010 11:21 AM MST up reply actions

Unless SWE-FIN play to a regulation tie and split the points.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Feb 20, 2010 12:06 PM MST up reply actions

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