The Maple Leafs' Future Doesn't Center Around Kadri
The last NHLE Update showed a number of Oiler prospects having tremendous seasons - Linus Omark, Ryan Martindale, Curtis Hamilton, Liam Reddox, Anton Lander and Robby Dee up front, and Martin Marincin, Brandon Davidson and Jeff Petry on the blueline. With Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle, Magnus Paajarvi, Devan Dubnyk, Sam Gagner, and Theo Peckham already in the NHL, Oiler fans are understandably excited about the future. Maple Leafs fans, on the other hand, are a bit irritated about the future of the franchise.
Everyone knows and few like Brian Burke's Phil Kessel trade, and while Leafs fans may decry their loss of Tyler Seguin and what looks like another top five pick, the Maple Leafs have a number of prospects showing well. They won't make up for the loss of two top five picks, but based on their early non-NHL numbers, it looks like the Leafs have a couple of prospects capable of making an impact in the NHL.
To determine the approximate NHL production of the Leafs' prospects, we turn to Gabriel Desjardins' NHL Equivalency. Gabe's methodologies are described on his translations page:
One way to evaluate the difficulty of one league relative to another is to examine the relative performance of players who have played in both leagues. Players rarely play significant time in two leagues in the same year, but they often play in one league in one year and in another the next. As long as a player’s skill level is approximately constant over this two year period, the ratio of his performance in each league can be used to estimate the relative difficulty of the two leagues.
To make things simpler, I've normalized their NHLE scoring rates to 82 NHL games. The table below contains updated stats for all of Toronto's significant prospects.
(Editor's Note: The bleary-eyed author mistakenly calculated Kadri's NHLE with the OHL conversion, not the AHL conversion. The numbers have been corrected, the sort has not changed.)
| Acquired | Num. | Round | Player | Pos | League | NHL82 G | NHL82 A | NHL82 P |
| 2007 Entry | 99 | 4 | Matt Frattin | R | NCAA | 29 | 13 | 42 |
| 2010 Entry | 62 | 3 | Greg McKegg | C | OHL | 17 | 19 | 36 |
| 2010 Entry | 182 | 7 | Josh Nicholls | C | WHL | 12 | 19 | 31 |
| 2009 Entry | 7 | 1 | Nazem Kadri | C | AHL | 13 | 23 | 36 |
| 2010 Entry | 43 | 2 | Brad Ross | L | WHL | 11 | 11 | 21 |
| 2009 Entry | 50 | 2 | Kenny Ryan | R | OHL | 8 | 14 | 21 |
| 2007 Entry | 74 | 3 | Dale Mitchell | R | AHL | 7 | 12 | 19 |
| Trade | Luca Caputi | L | AHL | 3 | 13 | 16 | ||
| 2010 Entry | 146 | 5 | Daniel Brodin | F | SEL | 5 | 9 | 14 |
| FA | Marcel Mueller | F | AHL | 7 | 7 | 13 | ||
| 2007 Entry | 104 | 4 | Ben Winnett | L | NCAA | 4 | 8 | 13 |
| 2010 Entry | 144 | 5 | Sam Carrick | C | OHL | 5 | 6 | 10 |
| FA | Andrew Crescenzi | C | OHL | 6 | 2 | 8 | ||
| 2009 Entry | 158 | 6 | Jerry D'Amigo | R | OHL | 2 | 5 | 7 |
| 2009 Entry | 68 | 3 | Jamie Devane | L | OHL | 4 | 3 | 6 |
| 2010 Entry | 79 | 3 | Sondre Olden | F | SEL | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 2008 Entry | 98 | 4 | Mikhail Stefanovich | C | KHL | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 2010 Entry | 116 | 4 | Petter Granberg | F | SEL | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 2008 Entry | 130 | 5 | Jerome Flaake | R | DEL | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Acquired | Num. | Round | Player | Pos | League |
NHL82 G | NHL82 A | NHL82 P |
| 2009 Entry | 58 | 2 | Jesse Blacker | D | OHL | 6 | 17 | 23 |
| 2007 Entry | 134 | 5 | Juraj Mikus | D | AHL | 0 | 11 | 11 |
| Trade | Keith Aulie | D | AHL | 3 | 8 | 10 | ||
| 2009 Entry | 188 | 7 | Barron Smith | D | OHL | 0 | 1 | 1 |
| 2008 Entry | 188 | 7 | Andrew MacWilliam | D | NCAA | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 2008 Entry | 5 | 1 | Luke Schenn | D | NHL | In NHL | ||
| 2009 Entry | 128 | 5 | Eric Knodel | D | NCAA | DNP | ||
| 2007 Entry | 194 | 7 | Carl Gunnarsson | D | NCAA | In NHL | ||
- Luca Caputi, Nazem Kadri and Keith Aulie have all seen time in the NHL thus far in 2010-2011. I've not counted their NHL stats for the purposes of this discussion.
- Matt Frattin has had a troubled run at North Dakota, but it the senior forward has his goal-scoring touch back and is scoring at the equivalent rate of 29 goals in the NHL. His equivalency rates place him second in goals on the Leafs right now with 10 goals. The same total scoring rates place him seventh in total points on the Leafs right now.
- Greg McKegg has been part of a much-improved Erie Otters team this season. LeafsNation looked at his scoring here.
- Josh Nicholls plays on the best team in the WHL and the highest-scoring team in the WHL. Curtis Hamilton told us how much he enjoys playing with Nicholls and Marek Viedensky, and credits the two of them for his success.
- Jesse Blacker is working on an enormous offensive season from a defenseman and not only has he had a marvelous season, he was named to the Canadian World Juniors selection camp in place of the injured Brandon Gormley.
- Obviously Nazem Kadri is the jewel of the prospect organization, but he's struggled this season in the AHL and can't seem to find his own zone or buy a point in the in the NHL.
There is no Tyler Seguin or Brandon Saad on the list, but there are a handful of players who should find success in the NHL. It might not be enough to take the sting out of the trade, but looking at those names means Phil Kessel will have some support in the next few years.
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Good analysis but
Nazem Kadri is the jewel of the prospect organization, but he’s struggled this season in the AHL and can’t seem to find his own zone or buy a point in the in the NHL.
He was a PPG player in the AHL, and although he can’t but a goal he has 6 assists in 14 games, and a nasty shootout goal that would make Omark jealous.
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Dec 14, 2010 6:55 AM MST reply actions
“and a nasty shootout goal that would make Omark jealous.”
Unbuntu doesn’t get jealous, he gets shootout wins
by Bananahammer on Dec 14, 2010 8:01 AM MST up reply actions
Nice work here
Although I have to ask, what junior year and conversion rate did you use for Kadri’s NHLe?
From hockeydb, Kadri had (ignoring playoffs) 35G, 58A, and 93P in 56 games (0.625G/game, 1.036A/game, and 1.66P/game) in his final year.
Assuming a 0.30 Junior to NHL conversion, that puts his NHLe closer to 15G, 25A, 41P for 82 games (11G, 19A, 30P if you want to pro-rate to the 60 likely games he’ll play this year).
20 miles to Legoland!
Further...
If using this years #s (which is probably more likely), he had:
14P in 14games in the AHL, NHLe 0.44P/game
6P in 14 games in the NHL, 0.43P/game
Weighted by # of games, that’s a 0.434 Points/game, projected to 82 games is 36 Points.
Maybe just nitpicking, I just don’t know where 24 points comes from.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 14, 2010 8:14 AM MST up reply actions
The original calculations were a typo. I entered his league as OHL, not AHL and the script did the rest. Apologies for the mistake.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
S'all good, thanks for the fix.
I was starting to wonder if we overhyped Kadri (i mean, more than we already have)
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 14, 2010 8:30 AM MST up reply actions
Question for Derek Zona...
In your effort to sell the Leafs short and instill a false sense of confidence in your fans, you failed to mention ANYTHING about the plethora of young stud goalers the Leafs boast. Next time you find yourself dreaming of ways to put down the Leafs for the Kessel trade, ask yourself this…Had Kessel been a RFA, how many first round picks would a team need to give Boston as compensation? I get a kick out of you Oil fans, a couple of wins and suddenly your the Detroit Red Wings…good luck with that. Get ready Hall…this 60 minute performance is for YOU.
Had Kessel been a RFA, how many first round picks would a team need to give Boston as compensation?
Had Burke tendered an offer sheet for Kessel with an annual average salary of $5.4 million in the summer of 2009, he would have needed to give up a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick. Instead he chose to give up two 1st round picks and a 2nd. Wonderful asset management…
by ranford4life on Dec 14, 2010 9:48 AM MST up reply actions
Boston had stated they would have matched i beleive, and just put him on LTIR while they figured out what to do with him.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E"
by Matt_Roberts on Dec 14, 2010 9:51 AM MST up reply actions
I really hope this game doesn’t turn into one big Kessel deal debate, because I don’t think I can stomach any more of it.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 14, 2010 9:55 AM MST up reply actions
No worries...
The Oil have employed some dancing monkey’s…and as an added bonus, I hear Taylor Hall is going to try and break his own personal record of chewing through five pucks in ten seconds…with those teeth and that BIG mouth of his…I wont bet against him.
by JasonLindros on Dec 14, 2010 10:01 AM MST up reply actions
And I bet you’ll sit there watching him do it while slowly pleasuring yourself and wondering why.
by Yeti# on Dec 14, 2010 10:08 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Until Trolly Trollerson showed up, it wasn’t that at all. In fact, I think nearly everyone got the point of the article.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
They’re in every fanbase, unfortunately.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 14, 2010 10:17 AM MST up reply actions
Derek actually is ours.
Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.
by Benjamin Massey on Dec 14, 2010 10:22 AM MST up reply actions 2 recs
LIAR!
It’s you. I know it’s you.
Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
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no, it’s true. he can never show his face at NM because of that “worst fans in Canada” article he wrote. people truly hate him for that.
by Passive Voice on Dec 14, 2010 6:52 PM MST up reply actions
My soccer blog got flak from the Vancouver fans because “ah, it’s one of those Copper & Blue assholes”, then credit because “oh, it’s not Derek Zona”.
Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.
by Benjamin Massey on Dec 14, 2010 6:56 PM MST up reply actions
Oh, outstanding. Time for a recap.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
I know that Chirelli always said that he would match any offer sheet, I really doubt that he would have had there been an offersheet of around 5.4 million on the table. That would have really screwed the Bruins, unless they were ready to demote Ryder to minors.
I believe Chiarelli has LTIR options with Kessel that would have bought him time to deal with figuring out how to slot him back into the lineup. Nashville was also heavily pursuing Kessel.
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Yeah but if he does sign him , I believe he would not have been able to trade him. Unless you mean no offer sheet would have been tended and he would have had more time to negotiate with Kessel
He couldn’t have traded Kessel but seeing how he handled this year’s cap crunch he could have easily moved peripheral players like Sturm.
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Of course Chiarelli would say that he would match any offer sheet. Saying anything else would weaken his bargaining position vis a vis a trade. As we saw, it worked out for him.
Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.
by Benjamin Massey on Dec 14, 2010 11:48 AM MST up reply actions
Well, it’s high stakes poker. Chiarelli has benefitted in the short-term more from Burke’s trust in Toskala than by dropping his team’s leading goal scorer.
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I’m not even talking about “OMG HE DRAFTED SEGUIN!”, just the difference between getting two firsts than getting one first. That would always have been better for him even if the Leafs won the Stanley Cup and Kessel scored 60 goals.
Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.
by Benjamin Massey on Dec 14, 2010 12:05 PM MST up reply actions
Sure, at the most basic of levels.
But two first v. one first is skewed because we don’t know what either guy’s ceiling is. One’s imaginary, the other was just a healthy scratch and will pot about 12-15 goals, and the third is going to score 30 for the second time for Toronto.
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That’s a different argument: “keep Kessel” v. “let Kessel go”.
If Boston had already decided not to keep Kessel, then saying “I will match any offer sheet!” and going for two firsts was much smarter than saying “Jesus, that’s a lot of money, he’s all yours!” and taking one first. Even if he drafts Patrik Stefan and Jesse Niinimaki with those firsts. Non?
Manager at Vancouver Whitecaps and western Canadian soccer website Eighty Six Forever and infrequently-posting flunky at Edmonton Oilers blog The Copper & Blue.
by Benjamin Massey on Dec 14, 2010 12:11 PM MST up reply actions
In your effort to sell the Leafs short
Which part of the article sells the Leafs short?
and instill a false sense of confidence in your fans,
You’ve got me dead to rights, if I’m known for anything as a writer, it’s pushing false hope to Oiler fans.
http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/10/27/1776926/edmonton-penalty-kill-killing-itself-video-review
http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/9/14/1688417/on-tambellini-souray-and-weakness
http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/12/12/1871627/by-the-scoring-chances-the-oilers-are-worse-this-year
http://www.coppernblue.com/2010/10/31/1742096/oilers-lack-of-forward-depth-and-line-management-exposes-rookies
you failed to mention ANYTHING about the plethora of young stud goalers the Leafs boast.
I’m pretty sure your “Leafs boast” covers the young “goalers”.
Next time you find yourself dreaming of ways to put down the Leafs for the Kessel trade,
In what way did I “put down” the Leafs in this article?
ask yourself this…Had Kessel been a RFA, how many first round picks would a team need to give Boston as compensation?
Without known the imaginary contract offer you’ve posited, I have no way of determining the answer to your question.
I get a kick out of you Oil fans, a couple of wins and suddenly your the Detroit Red Wings…good luck with that.
I’m sorry, which Oil fan are you talking about?
Get ready Hall…this 60 minute performance is for YOU.
What type of performing do you do?
It seems as though you’re reading something in this article that isn’t there. In fact, I’m not sure how one could read this article and come to the conclusion that I was taking a shot at the Leafs for anything.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
by Derek Zona on Dec 14, 2010 10:10 AM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Back peddle much...
Judging from your grammatical errors, I will suggest that you re-read your blog. If you understood the CBA , you would know that the compensation is not based on the offer sheet. If a player wanted out, they could accept a low ball offer, thus lowering the compensation. The rest I wont bother explaining to you…You failed to mention the goalies and the tone of your blog suggests the Leafs are in much worse shape than they truly are…but your words are here for everyone to read and interpret…you are the only one who needs to have it explained.
by JasonLindros on Dec 14, 2010 10:22 AM MST up reply actions
I’d like to take the time to point out that the above poster is a moron, and need not be considered representative of [m]any other Toronto Maple Leafs fans.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
by Bower Power on Dec 14, 2010 10:30 AM MST up reply actions
I’m hardly a moderator on any SBN site (well, I’m fully not a mod), but I don’t think we need personal attacks like
above poster is a moron
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
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by red army line on Dec 14, 2010 11:41 AM MST up reply actions
I don’t really see how this post is a shot at the Leafs.
He says that they have decetn depth in prospects but none that will replace a pair of top five picks. As a Leafs fan and eternal optimist, I would say that those two statements are accurate – almost unassailably so.
http://bluechipprospects.blogspot.com
Sometimes, after reading a post and the comments, there’s no other conclusion but you’re right that it doesn’t help.
It’s just frustrating for Leafs fans because now people will say ‘well, Leafs fans are crazy, I mean, look at those comments!’
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Lets not forget...
You people are arguing over a hypothetical situation. I would be careful about who you call crazy. I have no affiliation with your website, so I don’t understand why you would feel the need to be embarrassed by my comments. They are mine and mine alone. I only came here for some light banter…thats why I didn’t respond to any personal attacks. I understand I’m on enemy territory…but I thought we could agree to disagree without making it personal. I apologize if I have said anything to personally offend anyone…that was NEVER my intention.
by JasonLindros on Dec 14, 2010 1:12 PM MST up reply actions
Perhaps you should re read your first comment then.
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
by dawgbone98 on Dec 14, 2010 1:50 PM MST up reply actions 4 recs
Rec’d
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by Bruce McCurdy on Dec 14, 2010 2:38 PM MST up reply actions
“Look at those comments” and, well, you. :)
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Not to roll with “he started it,” but I don’t really enjoy when a commenter starts off with “I will suggest that you re-read your blog.” Also, starting off with “If you understood the CBA” to Zona, following it up with “I won’t bother explaining to you” – a nice “high and mighty” deflection – I’d really rather not be associated with the troll as a fan.
The experiment failed: Get rid of the trapezoid.
by Bower Power on Dec 14, 2010 2:51 PM MST up reply actions 2 recs
If the player wanted out and accepted a lowball offer, he’d just open the door for the old team to match and keep him around on the cheap. On the bright side, he’d have at least 8 different reasons to fire his agent.
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by Bruce McCurdy on Dec 14, 2010 10:37 AM MST up reply actions
Did you think this through at all before posting?
If you understood the CBA , you would know that the compensation is not based on the offer sheet. If a player wanted out, they could accept a low ball offer, thus lowering the compensation
If you understood the CBA you would know that in the case of an RFA, the team he was last under contract to has the first right of refusal. So if Kessel tried to screw Boston by accepting a 2 year deal worth $1.5 mil, Boston would gladly match that offer and he’d be a Bruin.
That’s not rocket science…
In theory, there is little difference between practice and theory, but in practice there is!
Sorry...
But in order for a Player to obtain RFA status, the original team must first table an offer-sheet on said player…so I guess that takes care of low ball offers. My point is that two firsts and a second is NOT that far off from Kessels true value. IF Kessel can score 30 goals for five our more years for the Leafs…the trade will be OK for us…not many players score 30 goals a year and I don’t think it is that unrealistic to expect this from Kessel.
by JasonLindros on Dec 14, 2010 11:16 AM MST up reply actions
Two firsts and a second from a playoff, contending team is OK value. Two top-five picks from a rebuilding team that needs talented youth is huge overpay unless Kessel scores 40+ a year (which he is probably capable of, with real linemates). Even then, top-five picks are pretty valuable most years.
The big problem came from trusting Toskala so much last year. Because Burke thought the team would do better (most did) what Burke did was take 3 lottery tickets and turn it into one sure thing. We’ll see if the 3 add up to more than him in the future.
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Toskala, and believing the hype that was flying at the time about Toronto’s blueline being one of the 5 best in the league (which looks pretty silly in retrospect).
The trade in and of itself wasn’t a failure; you’ll be lucky to get a player as good as Kessel out of a first round pick, even a high one. The failure was in Burke evaluating the quality of his team. If the two picks had been even in the 8-12 range, it would have been an okay deal. The problem is that it looks like they will both be in the 1-5 range.
It’s so much easier to just blame Toskala.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 14, 2010 2:08 PM MST up reply actions
I agree. I still can’t figure out how Burke overestimated him and gave him a shot lost year. I never felt his talent was in question, simply his attitude. He didn’t seem to work at it, and accepted his poor performance so casually in interviews, a very un-Burkian player. The benefit of the doubt regarding his injury seemed too much to me also.
by Robert James on Dec 14, 2010 5:45 PM MST up reply actions
But in order for a Player to obtain RFA status, the original team must first table an offer-sheet on said player
The qualifying offer tendered has nothing to do with anything, all it does is mean Boston wasn’t letting Kessel go without compensation, which is then based on the offer sheet.
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by George E. Ays on Dec 14, 2010 2:29 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
The offer sheet has to be at a level where the team that holds the player’s rights won’t want to match.
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I think you need to click up and see which comment PPP was replying to.
My blog and Twitter, featuring coverage of the most unpredictable team in the NHL and where we defend Mike Green, Alex Ovechkin, and Alexander Semin until the bitter end. That is to say, when someone tries to call BS on the Corsi numbers.
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by red army line on Dec 14, 2010 11:42 AM MST up reply actions
It might not be enough to take the sting out of the trade, but looking at those names means Phil Kessel will have some support in the next few years.
This not as much a shot at the leafs for the Kessel trade, but rather reassurance that even though Burke screwed up, the organisation is not as screwed as people might think.
I believe that you negetivity stems from you own insecurity regarding the Kessel trade. In your mind you know that Burke did something wrong, but you have an urge to defend it as a loyal fan. Hence every mention of Kessel and you become defensive
Just when I thought it wasn’t possible, there’s a valid sentence that includes both the words “Kessel” and “defensive”.
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by Bruce McCurdy on Dec 14, 2010 11:26 AM MST up reply actions
Heh
I know that’s the running joke (1-dimensionality), but his backchecking has certainly improved this year. Far from being a 2-way player, but not as much of a disaster as in previous years.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 14, 2010 11:53 AM MST up reply actions
Offer sheet compensation is directly tied to the value of the contract that is signed. 100%.
If the team and player colluded to sign a low-ball deal so that the signing team would pay less compensation than the team holding the player’s rights would laugh and match it and thank the offering team for such brilliant negotiating tactics.
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Backpedal from what?
I’ll ask again:
“Which part of the article sells the Leafs short?”
“In what way did I "put down" the Leafs in this article?”
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Why would they need to?
He’s already off the cap in the minors. How many would it take for us to get rid of Finger?
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 14, 2010 11:35 AM MST up reply actions
Huh?
Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Dec 14, 2010 11:58 AM MST up reply actions
Derek-
Excellent work, except for one glaring error. Barron Smith is not ever, ever going to score a single point in the NHL. Ever.
I am Mikhail Grabovski's smirking revenge.
But he has such a cool name!
You leave that up to the Baron and me.
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by Plea From A Cat Named Felix on Dec 14, 2010 2:30 PM MST up reply actions
Is he the Cameron Abney of Toronto or something?
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by Bruce McCurdy on Dec 14, 2010 2:36 PM MST up reply actions
Based on nothing else but the fact that I have no idea who he is
Then yes, exactly the same.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Dec 14, 2010 3:16 PM MST up reply actions
Not quite
Jamie Devane is definitely TO’s Abney.
Barron Smith is the son of former Oilers/Blackhawks/Flames defenceman Steve Smith, and he’s big. Other than that, I haven’t heard anything great about him.
by Slava Duris #24 on Dec 14, 2010 3:34 PM MST up reply actions

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