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Is It Time To Trade Ales Hemsky?

Can Ales Hemsky be of more value if traded?

(Editor's Note:  The Copper & Blue's most frequent commenter, SumOil, has been doing yeoman's work in tracking CHL prospect statistics.  When he asked if we would mind if he wrote a FanPost on Ales Hemsky's status with the Oilers, we asked him if he would mind writing a authoring an article on the subject for us.  So, without further delay, here is SumOil, starring as a guest writer for The Copper & Blue)

My favorite Ales Hemsky moment was the last second goal he scored against Dallas after Patrik Stefan missed an empty net. Others talk about the 5 point night he had against Columbus. Some friends of mine talk about him circling the Ottawa's net twice in OT before letting off a weak shot. Ales Hemsky has been one of the most talked about and adored players for the Oilers since the lock-out. 

Ales Hemsky was the parting gift to the Oilers organisation by Bill Guerin. In a semi-complicated deal with Boston, Oilers received their 13th overall pick in 2001 and drafted Ales Hemsky. Since then he has been a part of the Oilers for almost a decade. He has wooed us with his skill and puck wizardry and left us in his awe since he first played for us at the tender age of 19. All that skill and potential meant that a breakout season was inevitable and it could not have come at a better time. The Flames had been to the Stanley cup finals just before the lockout and so when hockey resumed in 05-06, Edmonton fans were eager for a show and Hemsky along with rest of the Oilers did not disappoint. In that 05-06 season, Hemsky led the oilers with a career high 77 points in 81 games and added a further 17 points in 24 games of the playoffs. Today he is only one of the two players from the 05-06 team who are still in the Oilers organisation. 

Since his 05-06 season, we have all been waiting for Hemsky to take the next step in his career; to elevate him from the star that he is to the superstars of the league. He is a top notch RW and has been one of the best players at his position in the league since the lockout. After the dismal 06-07 season, Lowetide had him penciled for two straight 90 points seasons. Given Hemsky's skill, age and potential, it wasn't unreasonable to have such lofty expectations from the winger at that time. In Lowetide's own words:

Hemsky is a top notch puck carrier who can reach top speed in a few quick strides. He handles the puck with poise and confidence and is such a good stick handler he's often double teamed. He has been extremely consistent over the last several years despite playing for a middling team. Coach MacT (early on) decided to develop Hemsky as a tough minutes player and Oilers fans have been rewarded with a quality player who should be an outscorer for years to come. Ales Hemsky is a man.

All that said, I believe it is time to trade the beloved Ales Hemsky. 

 

Star-divide

One of the many issues that has surrounded the Oilers is man games lost to injury. Every season we seem to create a new high for that very stat. Even after the roster turnover, we have many injury prone players at pivotal positions - Shawn Horcoff, Ales Hemsky, Ryan Whitney, Ladislav Smid, and Nikolai Khabibulin among others. A team riddled with injury prone players can never rise to being above average especially when those players are our best players. They can never be trusted to be in the line-up for extended periods of time to provide stability and continual leadership. If by any chance, the injuries coincide, all you get is the repeat of 2009-10 season.

Unfortunately for Hemsky, he achieved another career high in the 05-06 season - GP, or games played in a single season. Hemsky has not played a full 82 games in a season in his career and played  more than 74 games just once which was the 05-06 season. He then averaged 70 games in his next three season. Furthermore, Hemsky played the latter part of 07-08 season hurt and once we were out of the playoff race, he excused himself from playing. Last season he played only 22 games before suffering a season ending injury. Even this season, he missed 3 games due to a groin injury, came back to play a game and then is again out for a month.  Hemsky is now an 'oft injured' winger joining the ranks of such players as Marian Gaborik and Martin Havlat

Hemsky has a lot of things going for him which makes him an extremely valuable asset. He is extremely skilled and is in his prime years as a forward. He is a tough minutes player and often plays against the opposition's top lines. He scores nearly at a point per game with lesser skilled players. He is not a soft player by any means and goes to the corners and dirty areas to retrieve the puck. The best part is his extremely cap friendly contract. He does this all at a cap hit of only 4.1 million! There are many teams with scoring and cap problems and can really use a guy like Hemsky. 

There are many issues with the current edition of the Oilers. However lack of skilled wingers in the organisation is not one of them. We can agree that other than Dustin Penner, no other winger is capable of playing tough minutes, but the future is promising. Hall and Eberle are at a developmental step ahead of expectations. There are rookie moments, but they are few and are in between stretches of excellent hockey. Of course they are not ready to handle tough minutes the way Hemsky does. So a Hemsky trade should only be done if we get assets back that help us shelter our young wingers or really help us in terms of the rebuilding process. Lets examine some potential scenarios:

  • Islanders: If there is an organization which is worse off than the Oilers, its these people. The highest cap hit forward on the roster plays in Russia. Their top draft pick from last season is not doing well and they have won just 1 in the last 19 games. Maybe a trade package with Frans Nielsen a focal point will be acceptable.
  • Panthers: No Oiler fan knows the plight of the Panthers better than Derek. The Panther's PP is so bad that I don't know what is worse Oilers PK or Panthers PP. For some reason or the other, Stephen Weiss seems to be on the trading block since Dale Tallon took over and if a swap 1-1 swap is made, it should be win win situation.
  • Boston: This is purely based on the rebuilding mantra. Michael Ryder,Blake Wheeler and Toronto's 1st for Hemsky? Oilers have a lot of cap space and another top 5 pick will fall right into the mantra of rebuild.

Those were just three examples. There are many other potential trade partners like the Pittsburgh Penguins (Jordan Staal?) the Blue Jackets, Blues, and Rangers among others. I am not saying that we should trade Hemsky for anything that comes our way. However, it is time to start aggressively shopping Hemsky to try and acquire players that will help us now and in the future. When Horcoff got injured, Derek talked about players such as Marty Reasoner and Steven Reinprecht, but if we put Hemsky on the block, we are in a position to make a trade of a larger impact. Steve Tambellini has time and again asserted that we have only now started rebuilding. It doesn't seem like he is interested in making this team competitive any time soon. Hemsky will be UFA at the end of 2011-12 season. There are rumors that Hemsky is looking for a new contract value of around 5.5 million/ year. We should think long and hard whether we are better off with Hemsky at that kind of a contract (playing around 60 games) or with the assets that can be acquired by trading him?

Poll
When is the right time to trade Hemsky?
Before the holiday trade freeze
31 votes
2011 Trade deadline
172 votes
2011 off-season
40 votes
2012 Trade deadline
24 votes
Never
160 votes

427 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 40 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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I think you’re overstating his injury proneness: over the last five years (not counting this one), he’s played an average of 63 games (Gaborik’s number over the same period is 57 and Havlat’s is 53). If you exclude last season, the average is 73. Obviously, this year’s likely to drag those numbers down (although even that’s not certain yet), but groin injuries aren’t really career-killers.

Besides that, I think the whole notion of being “injury prone” is a little overplayed. Let’s look at Havlat: he had three consecutive injury-plagued seasons from 2005-2008, but outside that period (both before and since) he’s been pretty healthy both before and since, and is still an outstanding player. I’m too lazy to do any kind of statistical analysis about past games played as a predictor of future games played, but I strongly suspect that it’s got less value than most fans think.

If the rumours of Hemsky wanting to re-sign at $5.5m/per are accurate, then failing to get that deal done in July 2011 ought to be a firing offense.

by sarcasticidealist on Dec 12, 2010 9:09 AM MST reply actions  

Besides, I have it on good authority that, with MacIntyre on the roster, the Oilers’ injury woes are a thing of the past.

by sarcasticidealist on Dec 12, 2010 9:37 AM MST up reply actions  

damn did not consider this at all!

by SumOil on Dec 12, 2010 9:53 AM MST up reply actions  

he’s gonna punch injuries into submission.

by Passive Voice on Dec 14, 2010 1:30 PM MST up reply actions  

If last season was his first injury riddled season, then i can understand, but it is now a recurring factor. Do you honestly assume that Hemsky and Horcoff will have injury free season this time around? I think it is relatively safe to assume that Hemsky will play around 60 games this season. That is a quarter of a season missed.Furthermore unlike Gaborik or Havlat, Hemsky’s style of play puts him in the path of big hits. He is not good at avoiding checks or just doesnt care to make the good play. Its not just groin. Here is the list of his injuries
http://tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=2376
he has a recurring shoulder injury problem. He has had knee injury, a concussion and now groin injury. I think this is a resume of an injury prone player.

The term and dollars of the deal looks fantastic, but realize this: Organisation will have to make a choice between Penner and Hemsky. In terms of market trade value and in terms of organisational need, I think Penner should be the choice to keep. Oilers soon have to re-sign Gagner, Hall, Eberle, Omark Whitney. We are already carrying Horcoff contract. Plus we will need to spend in the FA to make the team better

by SumOil on Dec 12, 2010 9:53 AM MST up reply actions  

Organisation will have to make a choice between Penner and Hemsky.

I don’t think this is true. Assuming both players want to stay (which is probably a bad assumption), I think the Oilers should keep them both. If they leave, they definitely won’t be easy to replace.

by Scott Reynolds on Dec 12, 2010 4:18 PM MST up reply actions  

Gabe looked at this question briefly, and found that there is some repeatability when it comes to health, at least for guys coming off a perfectly healthy season.

by Scott Reynolds on Dec 12, 2010 4:22 PM MST up reply actions  

What a lousy way to start my Sunday...

Jeez, I wake up and go to my favourite blog and get slapped with this! Even worse, unfair shots are taken at Gaborik and Havlat – 2 more fellow countrymen (well, Gaborik is only a neighbour but still). I agree with sarcasticisideal in that we’ve overstated the injury prone thing… last year was a season ending injury on a vicious hit from behind (buy another ‘neighbour’, go figure) to a guy who probably shouldn’t have been playing in the first place. Coincidentally, both Gaborik and Havlat have turned out to be healthy for the most part. Even funnier.. neither would never sign with the Oil because they are superstars and those players refuse to come here!!!

 Hemsky reminds me of Kaberle a bit – they both love where they are, are willing to be underpaid and seem to constantly be mentioned in trade rumours. It’s even worse for Hemsky cause he is a superstar playing in a market where no superstar would ever sign yet we discuss trading him? I always wonder what he’d be like with some other players of his ability on the team. Remember Kessel when he had Savard? Didn’t Hemsky have Smyth in his best year?

But what really ticks me off as one of Hemsky’s biggest fans is this. If he were to be traded I’d like to see him go to a good solid team and prove that he really is a 90 point player (imagine him in one of the other suggestions PIttsburgh and how many points he’d get?). The options suggested here were the Isle and Panthers… am I the only one that wants to see the poor man in the Playoffs? I love the Boston idea and I agree getting picks for him would help Edmonton but please god let’s not say he doesnt’ deserver more money, a better team or a lot of respect for what he’s done in Edmonton.

So sure, trading him would benefit the Oil but I hope the image isn’t that we’d get a similar player back. I don’t see them lining up at FA in July to come here no matter how much money we offer and any good player the Oil develops seems to be having an awesome season somewhere else sooner or later. As much as everyone is loving the idea of the HOPE boys (and Gagner), Penner/Whitney and then some awesome FA signings in 2 to 3 years to make us the next Washington or Chicago… I really think we are more likely to see half the HOPE boys go somewhere else and no top notch FA coming our way. Then we’ll be watching Hemsky on some other team doing awesome thinking ‘we need a guy just like that’.

by Czechboy on Dec 12, 2010 10:06 AM MST reply actions  

The only idea that makes sense in there is moving him to Pittsburgh. This Boston thing is bizarre. Edmonton fans, even some really bright ones have been calling for this since last spring, but from Boston’s POV, why? Why would they give up the #2 overall last year and likely another top 5 pick this season?

If Hemsky is unwilling to sign and the Panthers have a playoff team next season, and were willing to give up Olesz and something else really nice like Ellerby and a second, I’d love it. Edmonton fans would hate it, though.

But the lower-level teams are not playoff teams and aren’t really Ales Hemsky away from being so. There’s no reason for them to give up first round picks. The Penguins, however have some cap issues that Hemsky could help if he were willing to sign there.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Dec 12, 2010 10:18 AM MST up reply actions  

I’m actually a big Panther’s fan as they have a strong Czech contingent but the reality is that the main reason they are not dead last is because of Vokoun… he has been unbelievable this year. What are the odds he gets traded by the trade deadline? I’d say 98%… they’ll be in a rebuild again next year I think.

The Bruins… not sure how they’d actually benefit from Hemsky… they already have 2 Hemsky type players – Savard and Krejci. In fact, Boston is setup beautifully for the next few years – they have 2 Vezina calibre goalies, a consistent Norris Trophy threat and some great forwards… and a first round pick on the way via TO to go along with Seguin. Talk about a bright future! Shame I can’t stand the team but if I were to bank on the next ‘Pittsburgh, Washington or Chicago’ – there is my vote!

Hemsky in PIttsburgh would be amazing and make sense… Crosby is becoming more and more of a shooter and they could split up those 2 lines so well with Hemsky – eg. pair him with Malkin on line 2 or pair him with Crosby on line 1… in either case, it’d make their attack potent. However, they’d be nuts to get rid of Staal! Mind you, if they were the Oil would be nuts not to take it.

by Czechboy on Dec 12, 2010 10:45 AM MST up reply actions  

Hemsky in PIttsburgh would be amazing and make sense… Crosby is becoming more and more of a shooter and they could split up those 2 lines so well with Hemsky – eg. pair him with Malkin on line 2 or pair him with Crosby on line 1… in either case, it’d make their attack potent. However, they’d be nuts to get rid of Staal! Mind you, if they were the Oil would be nuts not to take it.

Pittsburgh is more likely to trade Malkin than Staal, I believe.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Dec 12, 2010 10:48 AM MST up reply actions  

It seems to me they both play better when the other is gone… Malkin would probably be happy to leave. Sadly, I think he’d take Siberia over Edmonton though (literally).

by Czechboy on Dec 12, 2010 11:18 AM MST up reply actions  

Would ya? He’d be a good buy low candidate but his salary is very steep.

by puckdonkey on Dec 13, 2010 8:09 AM MST up reply actions  

Would I trade for Malkin if the centerpiece was Hemsky? Certainly if I’m winning the trade. But I don’t know if the OIlers can take on 8.7 million and keep Penner or get another real wing. I’d have to explore that more deeply. The final year of Malkin’s contract would be bearish – trying to pay Eberle, Paajarvi, Hall, Horcoff, Gilbert, and Malkin.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Dec 13, 2010 10:15 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah I don’t like spending much time on possible trades and there are a ton of variables we cant speak for but the idea has to be tempting. I think injuries have hurt Malkin since dominant player he was 2 years ago. Plus he would be the top dog in Edmonton, with much better wingers. A 2011/12 run would instantly become plausible. With #10 as the 2C you are talking about a good team.

But would Pitts do it? Would Malkin cover the 8.7 bet? Would Malkin like Edmonton enough to keep away the KHL threat?

Eitherway, I don’t see how Pittsburgh isn’t the cup fav this year… Crosby, solid D, and in first place without key injuries (Malkin and Staal) … wowza

by puckdonkey on Dec 13, 2010 2:32 PM MST up reply actions  

I think Nashville is a good trade partner too.

Hemsky for Colin Wilson and Jon Blum?

by puckdonkey on Dec 13, 2010 10:36 AM MST up reply actions  

i would do it bu would like Franson instead

by SumOil on Dec 13, 2010 10:42 AM MST up reply actions  

Panthers have a not too bad a Goal differential even after such a dismal PP. Hemsky should easily help them in that department and would make a very good tandem with Booth. I can see Panthers becoming a fringe playoff team and it could make sense for them.

by SumOil on Dec 12, 2010 10:51 AM MST up reply actions  

The Boston deal made sense when they werent cap complaint and needed to shed salary. Hemsky would become the most skilled winger on their team giving them an offense that would compare to Philadelphia and other offensive juggernauts in the East.

by SumOil on Dec 12, 2010 10:47 AM MST up reply actions  

unfair shots are taken at Gaborik and Havlat

How so? I am calling Hemsky highly skilled but injury prone. I am not taking any shots at anybody. I am just calling spade a spade. Dont you think they are injury prone?

by SumOil on Dec 12, 2010 10:55 AM MST up reply actions  

Don’t get me wrong Sum, I think you wrote a terrific post here. When Gaborik joined the Rangers everyone said it was a bad signing but he’s been their best player by far and has not been injury prone for them (unless, there is some big injury I am missing which is possible). Havlat also hasn’t had injury issues since joining the Wild – consistency issues, yes. Tweeting too much issues, yes. But not injury issues. Hemsky, if you take out last years season ending injury I don’t think his missed games average is that bad, is it? Again, I’m wiling to be proven wrong but I’m guessing his 5 year average is probably close to 70 if you take out the season ending injury which was a prick move by Handzus and cost us him for the Olympics!

by Czechboy on Dec 12, 2010 11:17 AM MST up reply actions  

i see what you are saying here. Gaborik since he went to NYR and Havlat since his last season in Chicago have been relatively injury free. But that is always the factor with these players isnt it? Can you really say with confidence that they will play close to a full season with their respective teams

by SumOil on Dec 12, 2010 1:28 PM MST up reply actions  

Good point… I think yes but history is not on my side. I do think Gaborik figured out his groin problems or whatever it was that ailed him in Minnesota. It’d be nice if Havlat got his shit together and played consistently like he has the last 3 weeks!

by Czechboy on Dec 12, 2010 2:06 PM MST up reply actions  

If Tambo could pull the Boston deal off he’d be a God!

by Bar South on Dec 12, 2010 10:35 AM MST reply actions  

Hemsky to Phx. for Martin Hanzal.

one of the founders and most prolific writers of Bringing Back the Glory

by B.C.B. on Dec 12, 2010 11:37 AM MST reply actions  

The Boston deal will never happen. I like Derek’s idea of Pittsburgh because I love Ales Hemsky and also want to see him have some monster years.

I’d love to have the Leafs grab him but there’s nothing the Oilers would want that the Leafs would be willing to give up. I’d hate to see him go from one rebuilding team to another like NYI or FLA.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.
Like reading thoughts confined to 140 characters? I'm on Twitter too.

by PPP on Dec 12, 2010 11:44 AM MST reply actions  

I think Hemsky is definately expendable, but when would his value be highest? Does another year with the kids (hopefully raising his career marks) seem possible? Or is it more likely that Hall, Eberle and healthy center outshine Hemsky (on the 2nd or 3rd line) and we see his production decrease.

Even though Hemsky has top line talent I can’t see a top liner coming back in any deal unless salary dumping was involved ( Spezza, Malkin… maybe this is a Christmas wish list). A shut down d-man for Christmas would be nice as well.

Lastly if Boston were to trade a 1st rounder for Hemsky it would only be their own.

by will.m on Dec 12, 2010 12:48 PM MST reply actions  

It will be hard to get full trade value for Hemsky this year now that he is hurt again. He didn’t play last year hardly at all, and is likely to lose significant games this year. The 2012 trade deadline becomes the keep-no-keep decision time. He will have to play next season healthy to the trade deadline, and then the Oilers will have a basis for signing him or trading him.

Pittsburgh makes a hell of a lot of sense for a destination for Hemsky, but I doubt that we have any chance at Malkin or Staal.

by godot10 on Dec 12, 2010 1:08 PM MST reply actions  

one of the main things Hemsky has going for him is his contract. At the 2012 deadline it is not that much of a factor.

by SumOil on Dec 12, 2010 1:15 PM MST up reply actions  

Hemsky WOWY

Oilers record with and without Ales Hemsky thru 28 games:

With: 6-11-4, .381
53 GF, 82 GA
(+2.52 / -3.90)

Without 5-1-1, .786
22 GF, 13 GA
(+3.14 / -1.86)

No editorial comment, just sayin’.

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Dec 12, 2010 1:13 PM MST reply actions  

didnt we do something similar last season just after the 5 game winning streak and we all know how that turned up!

by SumOil on Dec 12, 2010 2:06 PM MST up reply actions  

Actually that entire exchange came before the five-game winning streak, which occurred in early December. I stand by my comments at that time that Scott’s WOWY sample was corrupted somewhat by the timing of Hemsky’s absence in 2006-07 and the disproportionate effect of those games on the sample size as a whole. That was and remains a scientific and mathematical objection that had/has absolutely nothing to do with Ales Hemsky and everything to do with the distribution of the sample.

I will not argue that the Oilers did perform much worse last season in the four months after that article (and those comments) was written. As with all WOWY analyses, however, they can never be isolated to a single factor (e.g. the bulk of JDD’s games were played sans Hemsky; which was the greater factor in the Oilers’ lack of success? Answer: unknown.)

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Dec 12, 2010 3:29 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah, we (or at least you and I) pretty much came to a consensus that the WOWY for games missed to injury isn’t all that helpful because of all of the other factors in play while a guy is out of the lineup.

by Scott Reynolds on Dec 12, 2010 10:32 PM MST up reply actions  

Yeah, that’s the only reasonable conclusion. I mean, it’s a talking point, which is precisely why I mentioned it a few indents up the page, but there are always other, team factors. In the current instance I would attribute most of that Hemsky WOWY to what I in my new parlance call “Grade Eight” goaltending, which can be nicely contracted to “great” now that I look at it. The netminding during the Gerber-Dubnyk-New Nik-Dubnyk-again sequence again has been nothing short of outstanding. Whereas Hemsky played most of his games with the pre-injury Russian Ricochet, who was about five degrees south of replacement level.

It is slightly interesting to note that Hemsky’s last game before he first went out was the 5-0 blowout in PHX, the fifth five-goal shellacking in eight games, whereas in the eight games since the Oil haven’t lost any game by more than a goal. But see again goaltending. And of course Ales did come back to play one (fantastic!) game in there, just enough to remind us what we would be missing during his absence.

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Dec 13, 2010 12:47 AM MST up reply actions  

WOWY can, however, be lots of fun when it happens to agree with one’s own conclusions.

Writer for The Cult of Hockey, The Copper & Blue, and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

by Bruce McCurdy on Dec 13, 2010 12:49 AM MST up reply actions  

Nice post. And I concur. As much as I love what hemsky brings to the Oilers, the injury trend is worrysome. Plus, you need to give to get. And the Oilers have major holes to fill. Hemsky for Gudbranson rather than Weiss or Olesz, if you are dealing with the Panthers, though.

Staal would be one of the guys I would target as well.

As for the Bruins, I don’t agree with Czechboy. After Horton, the next 2 RWs on the Bruins depth chart are Wheeler and Ryder, two players they aren’t happy with. If they feel this is thier year and an upgrade on the RW is what they need, anything is possible – from Seguin to Colbourne to the Leafs pick this summer. A bad contract will likely need to come the Oilers way though. Would Colbourne and Wheeler be enough return? Would they give Colbourne, Wheeler and Boston’s first? Toss in brule and ryder to even out the salaries? Anything is possible when a GM thinks he is one player away from winning it all.

by gcw_rocks on Jan 7, 2011 8:25 AM MST reply actions  

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