Oilers v. Blues - Zechariah 5:1-4
St. Louis Blues at Edmonton Oilers, Jan 28, 2010 7:30 PM MST
I looked up toward they sky. I couldn't believe my eyes! Right in front of me was a Flying Fridge! And then an angel from heaven asked me, "What do you see?" What could I say? I told him, "I see a flying fridge, over six feet tall and almost as wide." And then the angel said, "This Fridge is a sign for you. You have read the number twenty-seven on its back and this is the meaning of the number: your team will win exactly twenty-seven games. But do not despair, for this season will root out evil and faithlessness. I have sent this Fridge into the dressing room. Through its eyes and ears I will pay attention and those who have lost faith and no longer believe that they are a part of Yahweh's chosen team will be banished forever."
St. Louis Blues (23-22-8) @ Edmonton Oilers (16-29-6)
Rexall Place, 7:30 P.M. MST
Television: Sportsnet West
More analysis after the jump...
Visiting Team Scouting Report: On January 2nd the St. Louis Blues fired head coach Andy Murray for failing to meet the expectations created by a huge stretch run at the end of last season. Since changing from Murray to Davis Payne the Blues have posted a 6-5-2 record and have a goal differential (no SO goals included) of +1 (+34 -33) compared to a record of 17-17-6 and a goal differential of -11 (+101 -112) before the change. So it seems that the results are at least a little bit better. In terms of outshooting, the results have actually been a little bit worse. Under Murray the Blues were outshot 924-900 at EV but managed to "outCorsi" their opponents 1692-1663. Under Payne the Blues have been outshot 297-275 and have been outCorsied 570-530. Nonetheless, their results at EV have improved significantly because of the percentages. The Murray Blues had a PDO number of 99.5 (and an EV goal differential of -7) while the Payne Blues have had a PDO number of 102.0 (and an EV goal differential of +4). Now, my opinion is that the percentages are mostly luck and that the Blues can't bank on them. Even if they could, they aren't a particularly good team at EV. On top of that, the power play continues to struggle (26th overall in the NHL) and the penalty killing continues to do well (5th in the NHL) but this team just doesn't look like it has the chops to be a really good club this year. And the coaching change hasn't fixed it. This is one team that should probably be selling at the deadline.
Expected Starting Lineups:
St. Louis Blues (23-22-8):
Perron - Tkachuk - MacDonald
Kariya - Oshie - Backes
Steen - McClement - Boyes
Winchester - Berglund - Crombeen
Brewer - Johnson
Jackman - Polak
Weaver - Sydor
Mason
Edmonton Oilers (16-29-6):
Penner - Gagner - Nilsson
Moreau - Horcoff - Pisani
Comrie - Potulny - Brule
Jacques - Pouliot - Cogliano
Souray - Gilbert
Grebeshkov - Visnovsky
Strudwick - Chorney
Deslauriers
Behind The Numbers:
- Worst Oiler teams ever leaderboard: The "Ryan Smyth Deathmarch" Oilers: 2-16-1 with an 11 game winless streak. The current "AHL Goaltending" Oilers: 1-16-2 with an 11 game winless streak. The "Shame Corson" Oilers: 1-18-3 with a 14-game winless streak. Four straight losses puts a stamp on this season: Blues, Flames, Canes, Flyers. I believe!
- The Blues have five defenders with 30 or more games played that have a +/- of +1 or better. Among the forwards, there's only one (Brad Winchester). I find that downright odd.
- The Oilers really aren't this bad. Through this 19 game freefall the Oilers have an on-ice shooting percentage of 5.0% at EV and an on-ice save percentage of .894. We can expect at least one of those two numbers to get better and, as bad as J4D has been, that .894 number probably should be a baseline for the next ten or twenty games. Dustin Penner is like a microcosm of this problem. He's scored three goals and four assists for a total of seven points over this stretch which is pretty terrible for your main offensive weapon. The team's shooting percentage with Penner on the ice? 3.6% (and the goalies are just awful, with a save percentage of .858). His line is actually massively outshooting their opponents at EV (166-113) but they've been outscored 16-6. So... I don't really think he's doing too much differently from the start of the season. And I kind of doubt there would be a whole bunch of moaning about him looking "more like last year" if the percentages were even halfway reasonable for him over this stretch.
- The Oilers have outshot their opponents 17 times this season. St. Louis has done it 22 times. Believe it or not, three teams in the NHL have been worse than the Oilers: the Atlanta Thrashers (16 times), the Colorado Avalanche (13 times) and the Florida Panthers (12 times). At this point, it might be time to declare the Avalanche the most successful team ever to be outshot by more than 5.0 shots per game (they're actually at -5.7 per game).
- The Blues are playing their second game in two nights. They played last night in Vancouver. One would think this is an advantage, but the last five times opponents have made the trip from Vancouver to Edmonton for a back-to-back - all during this 19 game slide - the Oilers have lost, being outscored by a combined total of 23-12.
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Hey look! The percentages are fickle! Who knew?
A posse ad esse.
The Copper & Blue|OilersNation|Hockey or Die!
Twitter: @JonathanWillis
Mail: jonathan.willis@live.ca
by Jonathan Willis on Jan 28, 2010 2:32 PM MST reply actions
Yes sir! But the thing of it is, we heard a lot of “Penner is a new man!” through the first twenty games and, yeah, he did seem happier, more leader-y and more willing to be creative offensively, but the changes weren’t really that big. And although I haven’t watched all of the games in the last twenty, he seems a little less jovial, but that’s about it. But now the call is “This is the old Penner! Bring back the new one!” It’s just amazing to me how much results (in terms of goals) impact our perception, myself included.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 3:56 PM MST up reply actions
The Blues have five defenders with 30 or more games played that have a +/- of +1 or better. Among the forwards, there’s only one (Brad Winchester). I find that downright odd.
I actually didn’t believe you, so I went to the NHL stats site to check. How in the world is that possible?
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
I really don’t know. It almost seems like there needs to be a mistake in there somewhere.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 5:34 PM MST up reply actions
Well those are just two different stats. +/- has all those shorties in there to mess things up. Gabe’s stuff is just 5v5. A better stat for measuring things to be sure, but not the one I went with above because it’s not quite as mindbending.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 5:41 PM MST up reply actions
The “Shame Corson” Oilers: 1-18-3 with a 14-game winless streak.
What you’re saying is that when Edmonton implodes, they go all out…
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Which begs the question, how bad is this team going to be? Supposably, you think they’ll be pretty bad.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 7:28 PM MST up reply actions
Second time this month! Take that Massey!
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 7:34 PM MST up reply actions
For abuse of the phrase “begging the question”?
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
I think it was irregardless of that.
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 8:44 PM MST up reply actions
I think they’re going to have an extremely difficult time getting to 55 points.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
The prophecy has them at 60 + the number of OTL’s between now and the end of the season. Call it between 60 and 65.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 7:37 PM MST up reply actions
The prophecy realizes that the goaltending isn’t going to win a game this year, yes?
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Doesn’t the prophecy foretell a ten-game winning streak based on unsustainable percentages to end the season and ruin the draft position?
No! Well, unless they lose 20 of the next 21 before that 10-game winning streak. Which would be hilarious AND in keeping with the prophecy. Make it happen Oilers!
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 8:00 PM MST up reply actions
Didn’t the “Ryan Smyth Deathmarch Oilers” have a 12-game winless streak?
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
Yeah… It’s technically true but Smyth was still on the team for the first game of that streak and they were, IMO, a completely different team once Smyth was gone.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 8:41 PM MST up reply actions
I dont know what to say!! I have been predicting we win one game at least for the past 5-6 games. a win is around the corner!!! BUT WHEN?
Beginning of February. You people don’t listen to me.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
Hey Blues fans
Wanted to ask this on your GDT but it’s not up yet and I’m on my way to the game. So …
Can you give me a synopsis of what’s been happening with Backes and Berglund this year? I have ‘em both in my keeper league pool; had them last year and protected them expecting better things. Which haven’t happened, esp. for Berglund. Backes I know had a slow start (again) and has been picking it up, but not like last year.
Any info is appreciated.
Off to Rexall I go. Enjoy the game everybody!
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
You’re going to this one too? Where are fans going to get my unique brand of despair, despair, and despair if you’re doing all the PGTs?
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 6:53 PM MST up reply actions
When they head out on the road Bruce might be calling in some favours…
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 6:54 PM MST up reply actions
Please, the Oilers will have been relegated by then.
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 6:56 PM MST up reply actions
Might as well take advantage of the freebies, especially if it’s a good team.
Not that St. Loo is a good team, but you know what I mean.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
It's complicated
Apparently Berglund is a delicate flower and doesn’t like being yelled at. Andy Murray did a lot of yelling at Berglund. Then he was a healthy scratch fairly regularly and then spent some time on the fourth line. Something about not totally committing to the system or something. He’s been much more creative and playing with more hop in his step since Murray got the hook.
Backes, he’s changed positions playing a bunch of center. He hasn’t been able to park himself in front of the net as much as past seasons. I think he felt some of the pressure of playing on an inconsistent team. He’s shown signs of coming out of his funk, but he’s been slow to do so.
Playing hard for 40 minutes, playing down to crappy competition, it’s all made for a frustrating year.
www.stlouisgametime.com
Prediction: 5-1 Blues win. Brad Winchester beats Jean-Francois Jacques so badly he’s unrecognizable and waves his head around the ice like a squid.
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 6:54 PM MST reply actions
Other teams make those mistakes too!
I can’t imagine the bench calling for that, can you?
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Yeah, I’m not impressed by this Blues club so far. The difference between them and Chicago is… substantial. Other than the goaltending I think they’re probably no better than the Oilers.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 7:50 PM MST up reply actions
Grebeshkov seems to be fighting the puck so far tonight. So far I’ve counted three times where he’s had an opportunity to make a play and it’s ended up on a St. Louis stick each time. Not much time on two of those plays (more “react” than “decision”) but he’s not having one of his smoother games.
I wonder if it’s not a better move to trade him than Visnovsky.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Ahh, you know me well Scott.
I’ve got an Olympic break post planned about that.
With video footage!
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Deslauriers’ habit of picking up the puck with his blocker hand is a bad one. The coaches should really get him to hold onto his stick.
Dominik Hasek did the same thing, and you don’t meddle with Dominik Hasek!
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 8:10 PM MST up reply actions
I love that Quinn or Debrusk bring that up at least once a game in which Deslauriers appears.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Hi from Rexall. Sons iPhone. I’m up to one finger and almost as competent as the Oilers! Fast period, mostly at this end. Oilers skating better. JDD is no Hasek, but he’s kept the puck out of the net…so far.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 8:22 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
You dragged your son out to this dog and he’s still letting you use his phone? Good kid.
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 8:26 PM MST up reply actions
Careful you don’t get booted for unauthorized reporting!
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
What a shame this game isn’t on pay-per-view.
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 8:11 PM MST reply actions
Why is every intermission ad for the St. Louis Blues broadcasts for either fast food or gambling?
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 8:24 PM MST reply actions
The refs seem to have decided not to call trips and hooks so far this game. It’s working out pretty well for the Oilers.
Strangely, unless Moreau is on the ice, it won’t work out well for the entire team.
How is Ryan Stone’s knee, anyway? Why don’t we hear about these things?
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
He was put on injured reserve so it’s worse than day-to-day. And he was out for longer than expected the first time with the knee. It’s probably not good news.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 8:57 PM MST up reply actions
Penner – Horcoff – Hemsky
O’Sullivan – Belanger – Pisani
Omark – Gagner – Armstrong
Stone – Pouliot – Potulny
A man can dream, right?
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Eric brewer played that last shift like he was an Oiler. Wait a minute…he WAS an oiler. Some things never change.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 8:33 PM MST via mobile reply actions
Yeah, Penner! And Brewer! 2-zip Oilers, right Bruce!
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 8:38 PM MST up reply actions
McCurdy Jr. Here: 17 seconds? Talk about not being able to hold a lead…kind of a junky goal compared to that beauty by Penner, solid passing.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 8:44 PM MST via mobile reply actions
He’s a big fan of Stortini’s unborn son.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Jr.: I’ve been a fan of Stortini since he became an Oiler. Not suprisingly I’m also a fan of the fifth element! The oilers have been lacking a lot more stortini and a lot less suck in their line up, I can think of three players off the top of my head I’d bench before I bench the only guy who shows up every night to play, namely: Ethan Moreau, Fernando Pisani, and shawn horcoff, all massive salary cap hits who have been doing precisely nothing all season, EM was pointless in 21 games. Dad says he’s pointless full stop.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 9:16 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
“I know this music, let’s change the beat.”
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Jr.: 19:59, 19:58, 19:57…hasn’t changed all of January, not looking to bright tonight either, at least I haven’t been force fed 6 games of this crap in person, the last time the oilers were this bad was 1993 when shayne “douchebag” corson wore the big C, funny how the captain this year is almost as useful….
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 9:30 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Fernando Pisani, and shawn horcoff
It is confirmed that you are not Bruce. Seriously though, those two over a guy like Jacques?
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 9:38 PM MST up reply actions
Jr.: Strudwick, though being D provides less flexibility for putting him in the pressbox. The team lacks so much offensive depth it doesn’t really matter who you pick, but the factht they picked stortini is laughable at best.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 9:46 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Pisani, Horcoff, and Moreau out in the waning seconds of your power play? You might just be a lottery team!
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 8:47 PM MST reply actions
78
It’s nice seeing Pouliot out there on the penalty kill. I really want him to stick.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
We’ll that was exciting I have been to five games this month and that’s the first time we’ve had the lead. There was only 32:16
to go, and we made it thru the :16 just fine.
jdd needs to learn it’s not a penalty until Mr. Dover says it is. That would have made the bloopers reels!
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 9:07 PM MST via mobile reply actions
We’ll that was exciting I have been to five games this month and that’s the first time we’ve had the lead.
That’s astounding.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
I know. I can’t believe the Oilers took the lead like that!
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 9:20 PM MST up reply actions
That’s astounding.
No, that’s January.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 11:33 PM MST up reply actions
18-10-34 has looked pretty good, hate to say it.
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 9:20 PM MST reply actions
Backes Hit
I know Gilbert was turning, but, uh, penalty?
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Yeah, you’d think that would be boarding, wouldn’t you.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 9:21 PM MST up reply actions
How can that be clean? He drove him into the boards!
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Wow. Awesome backcheck on the Perron goal Comrie. Way to display your trade value.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Now… are you serious with this one? Because I thought Comrie was backchecking real hard on that one. Deslauriers was… less good.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 9:23 PM MST up reply actions
Comrie didn’t start backchecking real hard until he saw Visnovsky so far out of position.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
I don’t know. He’s playing wing and he got back enough that he forced a shot from the outside and took away the pass to the trailer. I certainly don’t expect more than that from him on the play.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 9:34 PM MST up reply actions
Given his starting position, if he was heads-down from the jump, he should get there.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
The Derek Zona Memorial Short Side Goal from Dominik Deslauriers.
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 9:21 PM MST reply actions
Jesus hell, how does he get beat there? He’s so terrible.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
We need to bring back Eddie Shore from the dead so he can tie Deslauriers’s neck to the goalpost with piano wire in practice.
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 9:24 PM MST up reply actions
That’s too much work. Just cut Deslauriers. I can’t believe this is the goalie that made Steve Tambellini and Kevin Lowe screw MacTavish over Deslauriers on waivers.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
MacTavish screwed MacTavish. “Carrying three goalies until we traded one of them for an AHLer” was not the reason that team was horrible.
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 9:30 PM MST up reply actions
I do not disagree with you, but Frick and Frack contributed.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Just wait until Jeff Deslauriers superkicks me through a plate glass window.
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 9:38 PM MST up reply actions
Renney
icing call, Souray and Gilbert come off…and he puts out Chorney and Strudwick for the Ozone faceoff with 8:30 to go, down by one.
Keep rollin’ rollin’ rollin’
Though the streams are swollen
Keep them dogies rollin’
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Penner's shift.
Glad to see the rest of the team standing around watching Penner do stuff.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
It’s like the ’80s Oilers watching Gretzky go to work, if Gretzky had warmed up before the game by eating Blair MacDonald.
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 9:42 PM MST up reply actions
Heh – I was waiting for Quinn and Renney to roll the lines on the backside of the timeout.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Oh Deslauriers
You HAVE to be kidding me.
Nullifying an icing by leaving the crease?!
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Deslauriers leads the team in HUAs
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
I can only assume the coaches are exempt.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 9:46 PM MST up reply actions
Then he falls down behind the net and almost gives up a goal. So excruciating.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
The Oilers seem to draft really bright kids. How is it that they have so many lunkheads?
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
In 1998-99, the Calgary Flames had one of the worst goaltending crises of modern times. The Flames ended up running out four journeyman goaltenders who played no fewer than ten games each: Fred Brathwaite, Tyler Moss, Ken Wregget, and a young Jean-Sebastien Giguere.
Any of them would be by far the best goaltender on the 2009-10 Oilers.
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 9:48 PM MST reply actions
Seriously. Well, three of them at least. Brathwaite’s 2007-08 AHL season is better than anything J4D has put up in that league and Tyler Moss had a couple of superb AHL seasons as well. He’s mid-thirties right now.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 28, 2010 9:59 PM MST up reply actions
Wregget would be a bit of an issue, but he wouldn’t get beat short-side four times a week.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
$4,300,000 gets St. Louis Mason and Conklin.
$4,375,000 gets Edmonton their worst contract in club history and JFDD.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
JDD was a bit better tonight but goaltending was still the difference. Got to stop that shot, just gotta have it.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 9:59 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Has no one in the organization mentioned his proximity to the near post yet?
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
18-10-34 when you need a goal just makes no fucking sense.
by Benjamin Massey on Jan 28, 2010 9:49 PM MST reply actions
Gilbert. Wowzers. And Gagner clearly should’ve been in the target practice event in the skills competition. He could use the practice.
Lovely pratfall by 77 with the game on the line. Looked like Strudwick.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 10:02 PM MST via mobile up reply actions
Calgary lost tonight in the shootout so this next BoA has two pretty long losing streaks on the line. If the Oilers snap their losing streak against the Flames I certainly won’t be heartbroken.
Another team walks in here on a BtB, doesn’t hit anybody, and walks out with the points. That was a fast game but not an exciting one.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 28, 2010 9:56 PM MST via mobile reply actions

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