On Alexandre Burrows and Stephane Auger
Now that everyone has had a chance to hash, re-hash, cry, grieve, mourn and appreciate the Burrows / Auger incident and come to a conclusion, even though they had already made up their mind the minute they saw the Burrows interview, let's take a look at what happened. Stephane Auger had a conversation with Alexandre Burrows during the pregame skate, we have incontrovertible video evidence of the fact. Auger calls Burrows for a dive and an interference penalty in the third period of the Predators game. Burrows tells the media that Auger said "...I'm going to get you back tonight." during that pregame conversation. Canucks fans go apoplectic, the media blames Burrows, and Colin Campbell essentially says that Burrows is lying, fines him and moves on. Canucks fans get more apoplectic.
The thing about the entire incident is that nothing Burrows says is believable, and for a number of reasons. In the SB Nation roundtable, I said of the incident:
Given Burrows' history and his penchant for the dramatic, I put almost zero stock in what he said. He's a dirty player, he dives and he whines. I fully believe that Auger came up to him and said "You got me last time. Good for you, but it ain't happening again." If he said anything else, Burrows would have reacted much more differently during pregame.
Lost in the hand-wringing over the incident is the fact that Burrows is a dirty player. In reading the analysis of the incident from the Vancouver media, the articles seem like a wake or a memorial to Burrows. They talk about "his long road" and how "he worked so hard" and "his tough journey" to the NHL. The media and fans wailed about the "integrity of the game" and how Auger destroyed it. Lost in all of this is the fact that Burrows has no integrity when he's on the ice. He does dive. He doesn't embellish, he dives, and he does it often. He starts scrums and waits for the enforcers to arrive or clean up later. Canucks fans call it "gamesmanship", everyone else knows the truth. He's essentially a less-publicized and less-effective version of Sean Avery.
If Auger would have said "I'm going to get you" during the pregame, Burrows would have told someone, anyone -- his coaches, his linemates the Sedins, some random player sitting on the bench. He didn't. Burrows waited until he dove, Auger didn't buy it and he made excuses in the post game. Auger essentially told him during the pregame "Knock off the shenanigans", but Burrows couldn't. He finally got called on it.
The lesson here isn't about a referee targeting the player, it's not about the media being "old guard" in defending the refs. The lesson here is that if you are going to play the game the way that Burrows plays it, you should probably listen when a ref tells you that he's done buying what you're selling.
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Wait wait wait.
The thing about the entire incident is that nothing Burrows says is believable, and for a number of reasons.
Haven’t Colin Campbell and Auger both agreed with everything Burrows said except, “I’m going to get you.”?
Burrows would have told someone, anyone — his coaches, his linemates the Sedins, some random player sitting on the bench
Anyway, at risk of sounding apoplectic, I’m going to stop at simply correcting the facts.
Couple things to note. You wouldn’t see this cuz you probably only see the 8 Canucks games a year or so that are against the Oilers, but Burrows really isn’t a dirty player. He’s an agitator, but he’s no Sean Avery.
Burrows is rarely if ever seen doing any of the ‘dirty player’ moves. Much less so than most of todays ‘superstar’ players anyways (ie: Ovechkin, malkin, iginla).
Burrows is a yapper. He talks, he pisses people off, he gets into their heads. It’s his role. He’s very very good at it. In this respect he’s not unlike Messier was when he was with the Oilers. Except Messier was a superstar goal scorer. Burrows isn’t there yet.
Burrows is a diver? I guess so…he’s been called on it twice in 3 seasons. That’s pretty a pretty big number. Of course there’s the dive in question as well…but I guess no one else in the league has ever done that. Wait…maybe…well…I’m pretty sure if you’re an Oilers fan over 30 years old I don’t have to bring up Messier again. The simple fact of the matter is if you watch many Canucks games you see Burrows take a pounding in front of the opposition’s net, you see him take late hits and crosschecks, you see him get pummelled and piled on…but you very seldom see him actually dive. You do see him score more in the past 5 games than the Oilers as team have in the past 17…but that’s another story.
As someone else mentioned, Burrows did mention the conversation to a teammate. I’ve seen alot of Burrows post game interviews and I’ve never seen him do anything remotely resembling blaming someone else for his screw ups. You don’t have to like his agitating play or the fact that he makes your goalies look bad but if you’ve ever watched him speak you know that he would not go off like this for no reason.
by GAHHHHH! on Jan 20, 2010 1:21 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
I’ve seen enough of Burrows to know that he really is a dirty player. “Agitator” is a wordsmithed version of “Unsportsmanlike and/or Dirty Player.” What other agitators do you not consider unsportsmanlike/dirty? The comparison to Messier in terms of dirtiness is spot on by the way. In terms of goalscoring… not so much.
And yes, Burrows does embellish/dive. Even immediately after the Auger incident when he was talking to reporters he never once suggested that he didn’t dive/embellish against the Predators in the previous game. He didn’t because he knew he was diving.
The link provided to Raycroft’s comments were interesting. I wonder what Burrows actually told Raycroft. I think it’s likely that Auger told Burrows, “You made me look the fool, but I’m not buying your crap anymore,” Burrows relayed a similar message to Raycroft and then changed his tune after the game to “He said he was going to get me!” when he was clearly frustrated and emotional. I think he likely twisted Auger’s words to fit his interpretation of events, which is something that people do all the time. In Burrows case, he felt like Auger had “gotten him” so he tried to get him back after the game. Which is a pretty stupid thing to do. AFAIC Burrows got pretty much what he deserved in the game. I fully expect him to get more marginal calls than average throughout the year. Guys that dive tend to be on a short leash.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 20, 2010 2:40 PM MST up reply actions
Your comment leads me to believe that you really haven’t seen Burrows play at all, or if you have you weren’t watching. I’ve never seen him make a dirty play. No boarding, no elbows, no slashing, no leaving his feet in a check. He’s had a couple high sticking penalties…like most everyone else in the NHL. Unsportsmanlike…perhaps…he does mouth off alot, no one has ever disputed that. The thing that gets people irate is not the allegation that he’s a yapper…everyone knows he is. It’s the accusation of being a dirty player…he isn’t. Pronger’s a dirty player. Ovechkin’s a dirty player. Matt Cooke’s a dirty player. Burrows isn’t.
I think it’s obvious that I haven’t seen as many Canucks games as you this year but I have seen several. And yes, I have seen him make dirty plays on occasion, though I do tend to lump diving in with other “typical” dirty plays. I agree that the other guys you’ve listed are dirty players, with the possible exception of Ovechkin since I’ve only really seen him a lot in last year’s playoffs and he didn’t strike me as dirty then.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 20, 2010 3:14 PM MST up reply actions
Your comment leads me to believe that you really haven’t seen Burrows play at all, or if you have you weren’t watching. I’ve never seen him make a dirty play.
You comment leads me to believe that you may be looking, but you aren’t watching.
The cheap shot on Joe Sakic? Who goes dirty on Burnaby Joe, for Pete’s sake?
The dives? The whining?
He’s dirty.
You are in amongst 29 other fan bases that hate referees and finding very little quarter. That alone should tell you something.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Did you see all the dives and cheap shots burrows made tonight? Yeah, didn’t think so. Watch some games. You point out 2 events (btw…canucks fans thought the hair pulling was pretty funny too…interesting that the video u link to starts with a cheap shot TO the canucks, not by them)… he’s been in the NHL for 4 seasons. You want to vilify players for embellishing or complaining, you should probably start into about 200 players in the league… You don’t need to like Burrows, But don’t make arguments that are completely unsubstantiated and patently incorrect. You sound like one of those people who shout out how crappy a player Crosby is just cuz you don’t like him. It’s nonsensical. I guess if my team was having as bad a run as the Oilers are I might try and find someone else to deflect my anger onto as well, but I’d probably try to make it at least semi factual and relevant.
Sorry, you’re wrong on what Raycroft says Burrows told him.
Anyway, I don’t think labeling Burrows a diver, an agitator, or a pest should automatically make you guys callhim a liar.
by thelastjohnny on Jan 20, 2010 3:02 PM MST up reply actions
I think you misunderstood. I was referring to Raycroft’s reaction to what Burrows said. He says: “At the time, I thought it was interesting.” This, to me, does not sound like the reaction he might have if the ref said he was out for revenge. That said, I don’t think Burrows is lying. I do think he is putting words in Auger’s mouth based on later events. Auger probably said something to the effect of, “Stop it, punk” and then Burrows took that to mean, “I’m going to get you” after the penalties were called. Then Burrows related his interpretation to the media after the game. I don’t think either Burrows or Auger is lying.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 20, 2010 3:07 PM MST up reply actions
Okay, yeah, that’s basically how I see it. That single line is in dispute, and that’s why nothing could be done about it other than fining Burrows.
by thelastjohnny on Jan 20, 2010 3:13 PM MST up reply actions
Great Post....
Awesome Post GAHHHHHHH and so very true….
I have missed only 6 Canucks games in 4 years either on TV or live….
Have never seen them lose at home in person…. 24 victories and counting and 6 Bobby lou shutouts….
my boys call me the rabbit for luck….
Once again great post….
They only ever see what they want but not really what is there… we know the real story… and Alex… he just keeps motoring along…. lets keep all the positive attitudes flowing towards him….
Cheers,
Excellent analysis.
You nailed it, coach.
by David Staples @ The Cult of Hockey on Jan 20, 2010 1:26 PM MST reply actions
A little bit harsh
Burrows isn’t an easy to love player, but I wouldn’t put him in quite the same class as an Avery or Cooke; the fact that he dives is beyond dispute. On the other hand, Auger’s reputation isn’t especially good either.
Unfortunately, what we have is circumstantial evidence and two reputations. Everyone will weigh those differently, because it’s all subjective. I thought Vigneault nailed it the other day when he said that he understood the league supporting their employee, but the Canucks would support their employee; it’s all based on what angle you’re looking at it from.
A posse ad esse.
The Copper & Blue|OilersNation|Hockey or Die!
Twitter: @JonathanWillis
Mail: jonathan.willis@live.ca
by Jonathan Willis on Jan 20, 2010 3:02 PM MST reply actions
Yep, good reply. Now let’s get tonight’s game on.
by thelastjohnny on Jan 20, 2010 3:04 PM MST up reply actions
Agreed, JW, Burrows is nowhere close to Cooke or Avery. He definitely is an agitator extraordinaire, and diving is a major part of his repertoire. If he embarrassed a ref it wouldn’t surprise me if said ref put him on notice. Same thing happens in soccer, where Cristiano Ronaldo can get the legs cut out from under him and the ref will just look on unsympathetically and give him the “dive” wave. You can only get away with so much of that, and it would seem Burrows has reached his legal limit, at least from Auger’s perpsective.
I’m almost certain that something was lost in translation between what Auger said and what Burrows heard. For sure the zebra made a couple of extremely dubious calls, esp. the one that gave the Preds the game-winning powerplay in the dying minutes. The ref should be called on that regardless of background noise, because that’s just a flat-out terrible call with the game on the line.
The other issue here was that all this happened right at the end of the game; I believe Burrows got his misconduct with like 4 seconds left. How quickly were the lights and mics in the guy’s face after that? He was still visibly upset, trembling with rage, his voice high-pitched and strident. Whatever the cooldown period is, it wasn’t long enough in this case. The Canucks should have shielded him somehow. Vigneault has done everything right since, but he could have provided an ounce of prevention right at that moment.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 20, 2010 3:39 PM MST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m fairly sure the Canucks were required to give the media access to Burrows (by the NHL’s rules) although you’re right; it probably would have been better had they sidestepped just this once.
A posse ad esse.
The Copper & Blue|OilersNation|Hockey or Die!
Twitter: @JonathanWillis
Mail: jonathan.willis@live.ca
by Jonathan Willis on Jan 20, 2010 4:03 PM MST up reply actions
They could’ve had him cooling down in the medical bay. No rules say you have to be allowed to talk to a guy working with the trainer. I’m also pretty sure that teams have a little leeway, in terms of withholding access for discretionary reasons.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
Yeah, Burrows should have been having a long, cold shower for the duration of the press access window.
BTW, we at Copper & Blue are taking a bit of a beating over on Nucks Misconduct over this one. (As I suspect Derek had hoped, given the game-day timing of his opinion piece.) I had to go in and point out that if they read the comments they’ll see we have an actual range of opinions here on C&B rather than the groupthink that is, shall we say, sometimes in evidence elsewhere. In this case it just happened as it so often does that the person with the strongest feelings on the subject actually wrote the article.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
It's not just Canucks fans that are upset
When Burrows was interviewed post-game, he did not, to my mind look like a guy who was making stuff up. He was genuinely upset, which is exactly how I would feel had the same alleged offense happened to me.
Also, what on earth does being an agitator or a diver have to do with Burrows’ propensity for not telling the truth?
I’m an Oilers fan, and I’ve been frustrated at more than my share of Oil v. Canucks games, but I can put my homerism aside here. After the the Tim Donaghy scandal and subsequent revelations from the NBA referee culture, should we really expect that NHL referees don’t similarly have biases, even vendettas against certain players?
Let’s face it, refereeing in the NHL is terrible, so I find it weird that so many people are piling on Burrows. His story is very believable, especially given the circumstantial evidence (the pregame video) that popped up after the media got ahold of this.
I guess I’m just not that outraged at the idea that Burrows is on the wrong end of calls. If there’s something marginal Burrows is doing he’s going to get called by Auger (and others). If there’s something marginal that happens to him he won’t get the call from Auger (and other). Why? Because he’s a mouthy diving agitator. The same thing happened to a guy like Tyson Nash and I thought it was entirely appropriate then too. When refs need to make judgment calls in a split second should they let prior information impact their calls (i.e. this guy has a propensity to dive while that guy doesn’t)? I think they should.
Also, I don’t think Burrows lied. Derek might, but I think that’s likely taking things too far.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 20, 2010 8:52 PM MST up reply actions
Bruce, Jonathan I really respect your writing, you guys always put interesting things out there for us to read, and I have to say as a Canucks fan I appreciate your opinions here.
As to the original post: Other than the factual errors, which are problematic, there are several key problems with the way this is being argued.
It seems that commentators think that on-ice play style somehow is representative of a player’s character and personality. This is simply false. There is no way to directly equate play style with personal integrity and character. If that’s the case Stevens and Pronger would be sociopathic killers off the ice.
The other key problem with Derek’s post, unless it was simply intended as well disguised baiting, is that the key issue has nothing to do with what Burrows does or did, and everything to do how refs call the game. The moment refs are not calling the game fairly the credibility of the league and game are called into question and fans may very well start walking away. There is no ‘understanding’ this, either the game is as fair as the league can make it, or it’s WWE on ice. You don’t get to choose, refs, rules and integrity are what ensure it’s a sporting contest and not scripted entertainment.
I think treating divers differently than non-divers is entirely fair. In fact, I prefer the refs are diligent in taking this into consideration. It has nothing to do with the game being “scripted” and everything to do with getting crap like diving out of the game. IMO, the calls (especially the second one) were certainly marginal (though Nashville had some marginal calls against them in that game as well) but Burrows earned them both.
by Scott Reynolds on Jan 20, 2010 8:56 PM MST up reply actions
I love Alex Burrows because of his story; because he’s helped send the -anks into some previously unfathomable atmospheric stratum of production; and because he’s generally an effective and obnoxious little c-unit.
All that said:
When he first made those astounding allegations, my first though—which, I think, was shared by many other people—was along the lines of “Knowing the potential consequences of lying about such a serious, specific thing on TV…who would make something like that up?”
And then I thought about it for another second or three, and came up with a pretty acceptable answer: Alex Burrows, for one, and especially an Alex Burrows immediately following a really bitter loss.
Now, I personally doubt that Burr made the whole thing up on the spot in an elaborate, malicious scheme to make Auger look crooked; I just don’t think Burrows is that bright. More likely it was said out of some combination of misunderstanding and emotion (ie “He said something to me pregame about the last Nashville game!” + “He made a questionable call or two against me that influenced the outcome of the game!” = “He told me before the game that he was gonna fuck me over—and then he did!”) .
Similarly, the reason the average Canuck fan (again: not that bright), and the Vancouver media that panders to him, were so outraged was mostly, I think, because we got zero points out of a home game against a conference opponent in a game in which it sort of seemed to many like we deserved better (run-on sentences ftw). It wasn’t at all dissimilar to tonight’s game from an Oil perspective**; I’m sure we’d hear plenty about it if Grebeshkov came forward post-game with a semi-plausible story about Furlatt or Rehman (aside: who?) having it out for him.
Basically, a week has passed and it seems like the story has mercifully blown over. The NHL is apparently fine with the current status, and Burr himself has continued right on playing like the less-effective Sean Avery he is ;-). All we need now is for the Oil to beat the Preds on a ticky-tack call, and all will be right with the universe.
**Only, you know, with a playoff spot on the line… (/poking the bear)
Rehman’s a new ref called up from the Dub. Less odious than the similarly-named Herman, who’s unfortunately still plaguing the Western loop.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
Rehman had an extraordinarily bad game last night. Just freakin’ terrible.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 21, 2010 9:51 AM MST up reply actions
Great Post
Awesome take Passive Voice….
Well put…
I can get behind Passive Voice’s take. Interesting use of the term “c-unit”, an inventive and barely altered spelling of a word I personally don’t use but do understand. Burrows is all of that.
That said, I wouldn’t want Sean Avery and his circuscsideshow within 1000 km of my team, but I would take Alex Burrows in a heartbeat. I don’t necessarily approve of all his methods — esp. the diving which is what got him in trouble with Auger in the first place — but I respect his passion. He plays hard, he plays way out near the cusp of the rules (he said kindly), but he plays to win.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on Jan 21, 2010 10:02 AM MST up reply actions
Biased....
If you do not want to side with the media, then why go on bashing Burrows… and your idiotic statement against him "He’s essentially a less-publicized and less-effective version of Sean Avery. " shows your true lack of understanding no matter how much you write, you really can’t sugar coat ignorance, and it just is what it is…. have you never made a mistake or called someone out on their incredibly stupid comments or actions…. Alex called the ref out, maybe not the best platform, but I was at the Calgary Pens game a few days later with the same ref – Auger – and he made even worse calls, and did everything to prove Alex was right….. wake up and smell the real story of, maybe there is something to Alex’s story, and not just how he handled it…. the bigger story is of the Ref….

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