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2009 NHL Draft: Revisiting 1998 and 1999 and 2000 (Updated)

Montreal Canadiens' Alex Tanguay, center, goes after a loose puck with Tampa Bay Lightning's goaltender Karri Ramo, left, from Finland, and Vaclav Prospal, right, from the Czech Republic, during first-period NHL hockey game action in Montreal, Thursday, March 26, 2009. (AP Photo/The Canadian Press,Ryan Remiorz)

More photos » Ryan Remiorz - AP

10 months ago: Montreal Canadiens' Alex Tanguay, center, goes after a loose puck with Tampa Bay Lightning's goaltender Karri Ramo, left, from Finland, and Vaclav Prospal, right, from the Czech Republic, during first-period NHL hockey game action in Montreal, Thursday, March 26, 2009. (AP Photo/The Canadian Press,Ryan Remiorz)

I've been talking a lot about using percentage of team offense as a measuring stick for draft-eligible players, but I haven't shown any proof that it works.  Tonight, I decided I'd revisit the 1998 Draft; I was going to go 10 years back to 1999, but the fact of the matter is that 1999 was a garbage draft, and so 1998 is probably a better measuring stick (I'll get to 1999 in time).

Here is the list of forwards grabbed in the first round out of the Canadian junior leagues, in order:

  1. Vincent Lecavalier
  2. David Legwand
  3. Rico Fata
  4. Manny Malhotra
  5. Mark Bell
  6. Mike Rupp
  7. Jeff Heerema
  8. Alex Tanguay
  9. Michael Henrich
  10. Eric Chouinard
  11. Scott Parker
  12. Simon Gagne
  13. Scott Gomez

Looking at that list, who would we move up?  Probably Tanguay, Gagne, and Gomez, right?  Here's the list again, this time ranked by each player's percentage of their team's total offense.  As always, I calculate this by dividing a players point totals by his team's total goals for (adjusted for games played).

  1. Vincent Lecavalier (46.9%)
  2. Alex Tanguay (44.2%)
  3. David Legwand (42.1%)
  4. Simon Gagne (32.0%)
  5. Eric Chouinard (30.0%)
  6. Jeff Heerema (29.8%)
  7. Scott Gomez (29.7%)
  8. Michael Henrich (26.7%)
  9. Rico Fata (25.4%)
  10. Mark Bell (25.2%)
  11. Manny Malhotra (22.4%)
  12. Mike Rupp (9.7%)
  13. Scott Parker (2.3%)

Which of those rankings better reflects NHL achievement?  I think the bottom one, by a country mile.  For starters, it shows the culpable stupidity of the New York Islanders and Colorado Avalanche, respectively, for blowing high picks on Mike Rupp (9th overall) and Scott Parker (re-entered the draft, 20th overall).

It's absolutely inexcusable that this simple calculation outperformed NHL scouts at the 1998 draft.  But lets go one step further and look at the guys in later rounds who went on to have great careers.  Does percentage of offense do as good a job with them?  Here's my list, taken from HockeyDB:

Here are those players again, this time ranked by percentage of total team offense:

  1. Brad Richards (40.0%)
  2. Mike Ribeiro (38.6%)
  3. Michael Ryder (23.3%)
  4. Trent Hunter (10.4%)

Mixed results here.  This method did a fine job of showing that Richards and Ribeiro should both have been first-round players based on their offense, but completely missed the boat on Hunter and didn't show Ryder as an offensive guy at the NHL level.

I'm going to keep looking into this, but I'm very excited about these initial results.  I'm also a little shocked; I know this is just one sample and isn't conclusive, but I would never have imagined this scale as beating NHL scouts at anything.

1999 NHL Draft

Since I had some more time on my hands, I decided I'd also run the numbers from 1999.  Just to see.  Here's the draft order of all Canadian junior forwards grabbed in the first round:

  1. Pavel Brendl
  2. Tim Connolly
  3. Kris Beech
  4. Taylor Pyatt
  5. Jamie Lundmark
  6. Oleg Saprykin
  7. Denis Shvidki
  8. Scott Kelman

Not much to pick from, unfortunately.  In any case, here they are again by percentage of offense:

  1. Pavel Brendl (44.5%)
  2. Tim Connolly (37.1%)
  3. Oleg Saprykin (36.4%)
  4. Jamie Lundmark (32.1%)
  5. Denis Shvidki (30.6%)
  6. Taylor Pyatt (28.7%)
  7. Scott Kelman (28.5%)
  8. Kris Beech (22.2%)

This method didn't manage to avoid the Pavel Brendl pick either, but in fairness it really didn't do much worse.  1999 was just a miserable draft year; certainly the worst of my lifetime.  As for overachievers, I spotted just one out of major junior, Radim Vrbata who went 212th overall out of the QMJHL.  His percentage of offense score was 28.2%; not great, but not bad either.  I'd call this second draft examination a wash.

2000 NHL Draft 

Round Three.  Here again is the list of forwards taken out of Canadian junior leagues during the first round of the 2000 NHL Entry Draft:

  1. Raffi Torres
  2. Scott Hartnell
  3. Nikita Alexeev
  4. Marcel Hossa
  5. Nathan Smith
  6. Brad Boyes
  7. Steve Ott
  8. Brian Sutherby
  9. Justin Williams

The guys worth moving up are pretty obvious here: Boyes, Williams, and to a lesser extent Ott, I think.  Let's apply our formula to the order and see what it spits out.

  1. Scott Hartnell (43.1%)
  2. Raffi Torres (42.7%)
  3. Marcel Hossa (36.8%)
  4. Brad Boyes (36.6%)
  5. Justin Williams (32.4%)
  6. Steve Ott (30.0%)
  7. Nikita Alexeev (25.1%)
  8. Brian Sutherby (24.3%)
  9. Nathan Smith (19.6%)

Based on the numbers, none of Alexeev, Sutherby, or Smith should have been first rounders.  Fun coincidence: based on reality, none of Alexeev, Sutherby, or Smith should have been first rounders.  This list also flips Hartnell for Torres, which is an improvement, and moves up Boyes, Williams and Ott.  Obviously, the list isn't perfect, but as with the 1998 group, it is an improvement.

What about the guys who slipped down the draft rankings?  Here's my list, again from HockeyDB:

Let's apply our formula and take a look:

  1. Jarret Stoll (27.7%)
  2. Antoine Vermette (25.2%)
  3. Michel Ouellet (24.1%)
  4. Matthew Lombardi (17.0%)

The results are once again mixed, but for the most part (Lombardi excepted) I think show fair value for the level of offense these players developed.

We're three drafts into this analysis, and by my count Math has beat scouting in two drafts and washed in the third.  I'm a statistics guy, but I still find this a little shocking.

0 recs  |  Comment 10 comments |

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Somewhat related to your last sentence, this exercise reminds of that Colby Cosh “thought experiment” post from a couple of years ago.

by Kent Wilson on Jun 23, 2009 9:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow.

I’ve never seen that before. It scares me.

I hate Barry Fraser.

It's only my opinion, but it's right.

Writer for The Copper & Blue, OilersNation, and CanucksArmy.

by Jonathan Willis on Jun 23, 2009 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Willis + Math = Win. I honestly think that an NHL team could fire all of their amateur scouts, buy a Redline Report, use math, and do just as well. It’s hilarious and/or frightening.

by Scott Reynolds on Jun 23, 2009 10:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

This comparison shocked me. I expected math to do okay, but better than actual scouts? Seriously? And how on Earth is Mike Rupp a top-ten pick with his draft numbers? Because he has a projectable frame?

Plus, whoever picked Scott Parker shouldn’t be working in hockey. Seriously.

The scouts watch these guys, know the off-ice stuff, and see who plays against who. There’s absolutely no reason for a calculator to be close here – no reason at all.

It's only my opinion, but it's right.

Writer for The Copper & Blue, OilersNation, and CanucksArmy.

by Jonathan Willis on Jun 23, 2009 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah! I should have asked this in my original response but how did you calculate the percentage of team offence for players who were traded halfway through the year (like Tavares for this season)?

by Scott Reynolds on Jun 23, 2009 11:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll show you, using Tavares

(((54PTS/(32GP/68 * 213GF))32GP) + ((50PTS/(24GP/68 * 287GF))24GP)) / 56GP

It's only my opinion, but it's right.

Writer for The Copper & Blue, OilersNation, and CanucksArmy.

by Jonathan Willis on Jun 23, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Jonathan. That makes sense (in that it’s pretty easy to understand). If anything, it’s going to understate his totals since, presumably, his team will score less with him out of the lineup than with him in the lineup.

by Scott Reynolds on Jun 23, 2009 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think its not a fair analysis unless you include all top scorers in that draft year whether they were drafted or not.

That changes the picture somewhat. Here are a few guys that would put a wrench in the works when it comes to drafting by stats. This came from picking out a bunch of drafted players at random. There may well be more players out there with superior junior stats to Gomez.

Ramzi Abid (49.6)
Vincent Lecavalier (46.9%)
Alex Tanguay (44.2%)
David Legwand (42.1%)
Randy Copley (36.0)
Simon Gagne (32.0%)
Eric Chouinard (30.0%)
Jeff Heerema (29.8%)
Justin Papineau (29.8)
Scott Gomez (29.7%)
Norm Milley (28.8)
Michael Henrich (26.7%)
Garrett Prosofsky(26.6)
Rico Fata (25.4%)
Mark Bell (25.2%)
Manny Malhotra (22.4%)
Mike Rupp (9.7%)
Scott Parker (2.3%)

by Bank Shot on Jun 24, 2009 12:33 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you. However there was a reason why those guys werent drafted. Maybe some of them were very small, others very slow. I don’t think he is asking for firing the scouts. His point here is when you a have tentative list, ranking to be done based on % offence.

This point to JW. Before the lockout, there was a lot of emphasis on size. Smaller players weren’t supposed to succeed much. I was going through earlier drafts(early 90s), I was surprised to see how early some enforcers were picked. I guess that was the demand then. In one of your posts, here or at ON i dont remember, you have done a similar analysis of this year’s draft eligible players. With exception of Kadri, rest might be picked in a similar order.

by SumOil on Jun 24, 2009 12:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, Bank Shot

I was planning to take a look at that a little later on, but hadn’t quite got to it yet. I’m thinking that what I’ll find is that % offense is less good as an indicator of who should be drafted, but very good as an indicator of who shouldn’t be drafted.

It's only my opinion, but it's right.

Writer for The Copper & Blue, OilersNation, and CanucksArmy.

by Jonathan Willis on Jun 24, 2009 6:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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