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Is Rebuilding the Path to Success?

For a good many of us who cheer for the Oilers the realization that the club is poor is beginning to set in.  The shot differential has improved substantially since I looked at the worst outshooting teams since the lockout, but still sits at a lovely -5.5 per game.   Should they finish the season with that total it would be the third worst since the lockout.  To make matters worse, Ales Hemsky is now done for the year and there is some chance that Shawn Horcoff may be joining him.  As for straight wins and losses the Oilers are now last in the Conference in points percentage and tied for last in wins even though they've played three more games at home than on the road to this point in the season.  Yes, it's beginning to look a lot like a lottery club and should the Oilers finish in the bottom three in the NHL, it would be the first time it's happened in the Oilers' NHL history (as Oiler fans we don't have a lot of experience with top five picks and the little we have is better left forgotten).   Dark days.

The bright side to all of this is that the team is likely bad enough that this season could well result in a top prospect joining the Oilers this Spring.  Looking at some of the underperforming deals that run through next season there must be some temptation to just let the team suck for a couple more seasons.  After all, look at what teams like Pittsburgh and Chicago have been able to do after tearing down and building back up.  In addition, YKOil recently pointed out just how many Stanley Cup winners emerged from the ashes of a brutal team who got its choice of the young kids who come out to be harvested each Spring.  So what of these tear-down rebuilds?  Do most of them succeed in creating a great team like the Hawks or Pens that we see today?  After the jump, I'll take a more detailed look.

Star-divide

I was discussing this question or rebuilds with Ender earlier this week and although we didn't agree on a whole lot, we did manage to agree that in order to determine whether or not most teams who rebuild are successful we need to define some pretty important terms, namely,  what is a rebuild, when is it over and would does success look like).  But before those questions can be answered we must first decide which seasons we're looking at.  I decided to use only rebuilds that began in 1991 or later.  I chose this date because it's the beginning of the expansion era which, I think, had a significant effect on the "win-now" vs. "rebuild" stances.  As the NHL continued to expand, the dichotomy between "win-now" and "rebuild" became more and more stark.  When there are only five teams missing the playoffs, you really can give your fans hope each year and if you miss the playoffs, there's a wonderful consolation.  When fourteen teams miss the playoffs trying to do both may well result in a lot of 13th or 14th place finishes that don't yield a shiny new youngster or playoff hockey.  It really is better to choose one.

The next pertinent issue to consider is what exactly is a full-on rebuild.  I considered this to be any team that had two top five selections in two different seasons over a three season sample.  One could use other defnitions, but this one gave me a good number of teams to look at (22 rebuilds have begun since 1991 by this definition) and included most of the teams I would consider to have been rebuilding.  The first year of the rebuilding phase is, then, the first year the club has a top five pick.  The team would then be in the rebuilding phase until they post two consecutive seasons where the team does not have a pick in the top ten of the draft.  The first year out of the rebuilding phase would then be the first of those two seasons.

When deciding what to call success I would like to call it at least one appearance in the Conference Finals plus as many years in the playoffs as were taken up in the rebuild.  Presumably the choices are "rebuild" or "win now." If the "win now" option is generally considered, at worst, a playoff bubble team (though there will be exceptions) I don’t think it’s fair to call a rebuild that yielded a playoff bubble team a success.  There needs to be some high end results and some sustained success.  I close the "post-build" period after the team in question has missed the playoffs twice.

So using those  definitions and criteria for success, here are the results for the rebuilds since 1991:

Rebuilds_medium

First of all, the little + symbol in the playoffs column means that the post-rebuild period isn't yet closed.  The first thing I wanted to note is that rebuilds don't always lead to a great deal of success.  There are just as many examples of teams who fail while rebuilding as there are examples of teams that succeed.  Quite often a team goes through a period of being very bad only to end up mediocre.  Rebuilding successfully isn't easy and shouldn't be treated as a slam dunk to get a better club.  Rebuilding also takes time.  The successful rebuilds were all three seasons or longer.  You might argue Carolina's latest a success but, even though that group won the Stanley Cup, they really haven't had any sustain.  In the more recent history rebuilds have tended to be more successful.  Of the two that failed, one of them (Carolina) actually won the Stanley Cup in its only playoff appearance.  This might mean that rebuilding from scratch is a better strategy in this CBA, or it might simply be that the drafts from 2002-07 had better top end talent than those that came before.  It will be interesting to see if some of these other rebuilding groups end up having success comparable to that of the Hawks, Capitals and Penguins.

Bringing it back to the Oilers, I think they would do well to tear down and rebuild for at least the next two seaons.  If they plan now to rebuild over a period of three seasons it gives them a lot of options.  Suddenly value today is worth a lot less and value four or so years down the line.  It's an important decision and one that the Oilers need to make in earnest before the trade deadline of this season and, one would hope, even sooner.

Poll
What medium to long term strategy should the Oilers be using?
Try to fix the problems and get to the playoffs this season
27 votes
Shoot for a top five pick in this year's draft and try to make the playoffs next season
70 votes
Tear down and rebuild over two years and reevaluate after two drafts
75 votes
Tear down and rebuild over three years and reevaluate after three drafts
32 votes

204 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 45 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Pittsburg

I think they are a success. I think a Stanley cup should mean success regardless of how many years a team stays in playoffs or not.
In a perfect world, one team will the cup once every 30 years. So a team winning a cup with core pieces coming from the draft should be considered a successful rebuild.

by SumOil on Dec 1, 2009 9:03 AM MST reply actions  

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The Pens are the textbook case, four top-2 picks. Back-to-back SCF appearances including one Cup already stamps their rebuild as a success in my view.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

by Bruce McCurdy on Dec 1, 2009 10:08 AM MST up reply actions  

BTW, nice work, Scott. It’s an interesting take.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

by Bruce McCurdy on Dec 1, 2009 10:09 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah. It sure will be. I tried to stay rigid to my definition but the Penguins only need to make the playoffs in either of the next two seasons before they get the unqualified “yes.” Chicago and Washington are similar cases. Almost sure to meet the criteria but haven’t had enough time yet.

As for the Cup or bust thing, I suppose I think there’s just a lot of luck in winning the Stanley Cup. In a seven game series the best team won’t always win. That’s why I have a hard time looking at, say, the Tampa Bay Lightning’s 10 years rebuilding and 4 years in the playoffs as a success despite the fact that they won the Cup in their one chance at glory. I mean, winning the Cup is the measure of success so the team was obviously successful that season but if the goal of the rebuild is to create a good team with prolonged success then the rebuild, IMO, did not meet its goal.

by Scott Reynolds on Dec 1, 2009 10:28 AM MST up reply actions  

I guess the way I see it, the Stanley Cup is the most important goal, so regardless of the long term, if you win, you win, and you’re a part of history. You can argue whether the success ideology of pro sports is an inherently flawed one or not, but it’s how things are in the NHL, and I think that has to be acknowledged.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.

by Doogie2K on Dec 2, 2009 12:45 PM MST up reply actions  

I agree: The Stanley Cup is the very definition of success in the NHL, so to say that a rebuild ending in a Stanley Cup was anything but a success is a flawed conclusion. So by that additional allowance, Carolina and Pittsburgh get firmly slotted in the “Yes” category.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.

by Doogie2K on Dec 2, 2009 12:42 PM MST up reply actions  

Ultimately, winning the Stanley Cup is the goal of every team. That said, IMO there’s a lot of luck involved in any team winning the Cup in any particular year. You play a set of short series where the best team doesn’t always win. I realize that I’m using results to evaluate the process myself but I don’t think “did the team win the Cup?” is the best question to ask in this case. Some people want to ask about Cups for things like, “Is Chris Osgood a good goalie?” and I’ve never found that to be compelling evidence. I find this similar. That said, I don’t expect everyond to have the same criteria I do and if Cup = Success for you then rebuilds, in general, will look better.

by Scott Reynolds on Dec 2, 2009 2:43 PM MST up reply actions  

It’s not so much that Cup = Success for me personally (though it does weigh heavily), but that that’s how success is judged in the NHL, and thus a driving factor behind the decisions teams make.

I also think the Stanley Cup is very specifically a measure of team success, and not individual success. Sure, every so often you get a couple of players who catch fire and bring a team to the brink of glory, but when a team wins, it’s usually very much a team effort. Chris Osgood may have four Stanley Cup rings, but if he’d played for the New York Islanders his entire career, he wouldn’t have come within a country mile of it. (See also: “Miikka Kiprusoff is an elite goaltender because he had 45 wins in 2008-09.”)

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.

by Doogie2K on Dec 2, 2009 4:26 PM MST up reply actions  

That’s a good point about player vs. team measures. A poor choice by me. On the team level, I’m still reticent to say winning a Cup means the rebuild was well-done. Obviously one season was well-done but if you’ve won a Cup and haven’t had any sustain I think that says something about the kind of club you built and perhaps the team that won it all. Though like I said, I don’t expect everyone to have the exact same definition of success. I probably should have used a different word like “sustained top level team” or some such since I think that’s the goal of tanking a few seasons away. Couldn’t think of a catchy way to put it though so I just went with “success.”

by Scott Reynolds on Dec 2, 2009 4:46 PM MST up reply actions  

Fair enough.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.

by Doogie2K on Dec 2, 2009 9:04 PM MST up reply actions  

It’s not so much that Cup = Success for me personally (though it does weigh heavily), but that that’s how success is judged in the NHL, and thus a driving factor behind the decisions teams make.

And it’s a silly standard. Given the expansion of the league – I’d think that a couple of consecutive final fours is the same as 1970’s cup.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Dec 2, 2009 10:23 PM MST up reply actions  

Rebuilds don’t work unless you have competent people managing those rebuilds.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Dec 1, 2009 10:13 AM MST reply actions  

taking a pot shot at pre-Howson Columbus are we?

by SumOil on Dec 1, 2009 10:17 AM MST up reply actions  

Even post-Howson Columbus isn’t any great shakes. They’re certainly a better club and I think Howson has done a nice job but they’re just a bubble team again this season and may miss the playoffs.

by Scott Reynolds on Dec 1, 2009 10:22 AM MST up reply actions  

Even after a rebuild, it takes time for a team to improve. After Nash, they did not land a quality player untill Brassard and Voracek. Lets face it as talented as they may be they do not stack up against the Blackhawk’s and the Penguins’ young players. They still have an average defense and once that is shored up, we should see further advancement.

by SumOil on Dec 1, 2009 10:45 AM MST up reply actions  

We may see them make big strides, we’ll see. They haven’t been able to make it over the hump yet and I think they’ll find it difficult since they don’t spend to the cap. Howson is good, but to get this team into a position where it’s consistently among the top teams while spending 10% less on players than a lot of other clubs is going to be a real challenge.

by Scott Reynolds on Dec 1, 2009 11:11 AM MST up reply actions  

Like Chicago when the team starts winning more often (and recession receeds !) they slowly should be able to spend to the cap. But that aside, their problem right now is inconsistent goaltending and once Mason gets back on his game, they should get more consistent too

by SumOil on Dec 1, 2009 11:22 AM MST up reply actions  

But post-Howson Columbus isn’t a rebuild team.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Dec 1, 2009 11:27 AM MST up reply actions  

I think Howson “finished” the rebuild (assuming Columbus doesn’t regress back to a bottom ten club this year) and we’re now going to look at the results of the rebuild for the next several seasons. I don’t necessarily think Howson is at fault if the rebuild ends up yielding mediocrity but I wouldn’t be prepared to call his tenure successful either.

by Scott Reynolds on Dec 1, 2009 11:57 AM MST up reply actions  

Rebuild

I think the ability to recognize that your not gonna make the playoffs and tank appropriately is key. A lottery pick in the cap NHL is worth tons. Carolina and Philly have done it in the last couple years. You don’t need to flush everything down the drain. If the Oilers can get a lottery pick to add to MPS, and Eberle I like them moving forward again (I liked them a year ago with Gags/Cogs/Nilsson looking promising as well). The also need to clear 6-7 million in cap space to allow them to make a big trade, they just have no options right now … sigh

by puckdonkey on Dec 1, 2009 10:23 AM MST reply actions  

Philadelphia did an amazing “reload” in 2006-07. They were only bad for one year but in that year managed to acquire Coburn, Van Riemsdyk, Upshall, Parent, Kukkonen and Biron and they did while clearing out salary which set them up to make free agent acquisitions. If the plan is a one year tank job they ought to be the model.

by Scott Reynolds on Dec 1, 2009 10:34 AM MST up reply actions  

However their success is not due to the drafting they did after the tank season. They got lucky with the fact that Atlanta was ready to give up Coburn and Nashville-Hartnell. It was more smart-trading than anything else. Their best players still are the ones they drafted in 2003. Where i do like their trades, we might not be able to do si for the fact that most of the players they traded were FA, and we dont have high impact FA at the end of our season. Also that season trade deadline had a lot of trades and a lot of high end players got traded. Now teams are smarter. They arent giving up important assets and are ready to wait than go into ‘win now’ mode.

by SumOil on Dec 1, 2009 10:52 AM MST up reply actions  

You’re certainly right that it’s harder to move assets around this year than it was then because of, among other things, stagnation in the cap. There just isn’t much room for teams to take on salary. That said the Flyers didn’t actually have that many expiring contracts. They had Forsberg who they moved to Nashville for a princely sum but to bring in Biron they gave up a draft pick, Kukkonen came in for a minor leaguer and Coburn was brought in for Alexei Zhitnik who still had another two years left on his deal at 3.5M per. It was basically like trading Steve Staios for a top prospect. So very strange.

by Scott Reynolds on Dec 1, 2009 11:15 AM MST up reply actions  

Coburn was brought in for Alexei Zhitnik who still had another two years left on his deal at 3.5M per. It was basically like trading Steve Staios for a top prospect. So very strange.

one of the reasons we wonder how DW still has a job

by SumOil on Dec 1, 2009 11:16 AM MST up reply actions  

Hartnell was acquired in the off-season no? I think there is always value available to a team looking to sell before the playoffs. Maybe not Coburn good but still decent players.

Oilers have been drafting smart for a while now. And most of their trades haven’t been that bad (Lubo good, GX good, Cole decent although O’Sullivan is looking bust, Torres good, Smyth ok given he was a playoff rental) … but the rest of the management has been gong show. At this point, if they can get value for a vet or 2 and move 2-3 smaller forwards while getting a lottery pick the season is a success.

by puckdonkey on Dec 1, 2009 11:12 AM MST reply actions  

No if i am right the trade was Forsberg for Hartnell, Parent and a 1st rounder

They traded for the rights to Timonen and signed him right away.

by SumOil on Dec 1, 2009 11:18 AM MST up reply actions  

That trade was Forsberg for Upshall, Parent and a 1st round pick. Then in the summer they flipped the pick back to Nashville for the neg. rights to Hartnell and Timonen.

by Scott Reynolds on Dec 1, 2009 11:19 AM MST up reply actions  

yeah and then signed them right away. I am sorry. I just saw it.

by SumOil on Dec 1, 2009 11:20 AM MST up reply actions  

Yeah, they picked up Hartnell and Timonen (and Briere and Lupul and Smith) in the off season. It was a successful reload for them and Van Riemsdyk is looking like a player this season. I do believe there was another team that tried to reload that summer. Don’t quite recall how it worked out…

by Scott Reynolds on Dec 1, 2009 11:18 AM MST up reply actions  

And its a success despite the horrible contracts given to Timonen and Briere. That’s another key difference, the Oilers havent been able to land FA’s even with overpays. The draft is key. Trading even moreso.

by puckdonkey on Dec 1, 2009 11:21 AM MST up reply actions  

i dont think Timmonen is overpaid. He is one fo the most underrated D-men in the league. Since signing in Philly he has been their number 1 d-man and has done a great job.
Briere signing looks bad only in retrospect. At that time no one saw Richards and Carter being as good as they have been so far. Also it is only that season that Giroux had a great performance in the Qmjhl. Gagne was showing signs of extreme inconsistency.

by SumOil on Dec 1, 2009 11:26 AM MST up reply actions  

If Timonen is overpaid so is Visnovsky.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

by Bruce McCurdy on Dec 1, 2009 4:07 PM MST up reply actions  

Regarding th poll…
I want a rebuild for at least 2 years.

by SumOil on Dec 1, 2009 11:27 AM MST reply actions  

I think the question I’d be asking myself were I an Oiler fan is: Do I trust the current management to properly execute a rebuild in the first place?

by Kent Wilson on Dec 1, 2009 1:51 PM MST reply actions  

Well that question is easy. I don’t trust them to do a good job. But maybe they’ll get fired halfway through the process like Doug MacLean or Craig Patrick! Yeah!

by Scott Reynolds on Dec 1, 2009 1:56 PM MST up reply actions  

I trust them to suck enough to bring in high picks whether they want them or not? And then get fired?

Dare to dream.

A posse ad esse.

The Copper & Blue|OilersNation|Hockey or Die!

Twitter: @JonathanWillis
Mail: jonathan.willis@live.ca

by Jonathan Willis on Dec 1, 2009 2:19 PM MST up reply actions  

I dont think they will get fired any time this season. Also if we dont make any trades, we dont have any cap space for over-paying any one. So FA should be more of a wash. I dont think we might have any other choice than to go through a proper rebuild. It might turn into the only situation.

by SumOil on Dec 1, 2009 3:28 PM MST up reply actions  

Why Limit it to Win Now vs Rebuild?

Perhaps there is a third and more likely option. Rotate a few big name players through the roster and fleece the fans. When the team is a cash cow, how much motivation is there for a rebuild?

Ladies and Gentlemen, your Edmonton WesternLeafs.

by Greg.O on Dec 1, 2009 2:13 PM MST reply actions  

Yeah, I think there would be a business motivation to see the team do well in the playoffs. The owner would be making a lot more money through home dates, merchandise sales, good will (which is more important when you want to do things like have the community build you an arena). The same goes for the Leafs. I believe they’re trying to win. They’re just not so good at actually winning.

by Scott Reynolds on Dec 1, 2009 2:40 PM MST up reply actions  

Fans are fickle minded hopeful people. They will buy anything. Create a lot of hype and there is a good chance that most of them will fall for it. There are many ways of selling hope. A Taylor Hall will put people in seats. People will come to watch a line of Hall-Gagner-MPS play. We are all suckers for hope. In edmonton people will come and watch hockey.

by SumOil on Dec 1, 2009 3:32 PM MST up reply actions  

You know, coming from Captain Optimism, that’s probably the most cynical thing I’ve read about this team in a while.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.

by Doogie2K on Dec 2, 2009 12:52 PM MST up reply actions  

Is there any risk in Edmonton that a rebuild would cause the 41 home games to not be sold-out for 2+ years?

by Greg.O on Dec 1, 2009 2:43 PM MST reply actions  

They don’t need to do a full rebuild. They could tank this year, get a top 3 pick, unload Moreau, Staios, Pisani, Jacques, and likely Souray, for the pieces they need plus the cap space.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Dec 1, 2009 2:48 PM MST up reply actions  

or the pieces they get. Some of them need to be offloaded just cause they arent adding any value.

by SumOil on Dec 1, 2009 3:29 PM MST up reply actions  

unloading Moreau, Staios and Pisani would be quite the feat, let alone for anything of any value.

by Kent Wilson on Dec 1, 2009 3:40 PM MST up reply actions  

unloading Pisani wont be hard. However the other 2 will pose a challenge

by SumOil on Dec 1, 2009 3:44 PM MST up reply actions  

Who’s going to take a guy getting overpaid that much to begin with to sit on the sidelines?

He’s a good 3RW, but beyond that, Pisani’s value is sentimental. No one’s going to take that deal.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.

by Doogie2K on Dec 2, 2009 12:54 PM MST up reply actions  

The deal is up at the end of the year.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Dec 2, 2009 1:14 PM MST up reply actions  

And how much of that year will he spend on the IR? There’s almost no sense in dealing him; the deal’s too rich if he’s going to play, especially if he’s less than 100% when he gets back, and no one’s going to take him if he’s hurt, so you just stick him on LTIR and you have cap relief. No, Pisani’s not the one to try to offload.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.

by Doogie2K on Dec 2, 2009 4:29 PM MST up reply actions  

But he’s gone at the end of the year either way. The cap space is there if he’s traded or not.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Dec 2, 2009 10:24 PM MST up reply actions  

I should have been more clear. Souray would bring the value, Moreau, Staios and Pisani bring the cap space.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Dec 1, 2009 3:47 PM MST up reply actions  

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