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Not ready for prime time

For quite some time I have had a pet peeve about the make-up of the Oiler roster. Too many young unproven guys, too many old expensive guys, and nowhere near enough prime-of-career guys. I wrote this and this on the subject last April, noting the gaping hole in the middle of the age spectrum. What has changed so far in 2009-10?

Let's look at the forwards. So far this season Oilers have already used 19 (!) of them. I have divided them into 5 groups, by hockey age (as of Feb 1, 2010, as defined by Hockey-reference.com):

Entry level (age 20-22): Cogliano, Gagner, O'Marra
Developing (age 23-25): Brulé, Jacques, McDonald, Nilsson, O'Sullivan, Potulny, Reddox, Stone, Stortini
Prime (age 26-28): Hemsky, Penner
Late prime (age 29-31):  Comrie, Horcoff, MacIntyre
Veterans (age 32-34):  Moreau, Pisani

If that seems like a lot of developing players, it is. Let's check out the distribution by number of players, number of GP given those players, and percentage of ice time.  

Age #fwds %fwds %GP %TOI
20-22 3 15.8% 17.5% 17.3%
23-25 9 47.4% 43.8% 39.8%
26-28 2 10.5% 15.3% 19.5%
29-31 3 15.8% 13.4% 14.6%
32-34 2 10.5% 10.0% 8.8%

(The same categories are represented by the blue, red, and green lines respectively in the graph up top. Sorry for its poor quality, although it's much better if you click to view it in full size. New and improved!)

Pat Quinn has ridden his prime time horses -- both of them -- pretty much as hard as he can. Still, for every minute one of them spends on the ice, younger players have received nearly 3 minutes. So what have all these developing players done with said ice time? Results after the jump ... 

Star-divide

 

Age G/GP P/GP +-/GP G/60 P/60 +-/60
20-22 0.14 0.45 -0.08 0.58 1.82 -0.07
23-25 0.16 0.40 -0.23 0.73 1.77 -1.07
26-28 0.45 1.06 +0.36 1.41 3.34 +1.16
29-31 0.23 0.44 -0.20 0.86 1.64 -1.12
32-34 0.13 0.22 -0.07 0.57 1.00 -0.29

No surprise to see Penner and Hemsky with massively greater production on a per-game basis. Even parsed on a per-minute basis their goals and points output is roughly double all of their teammates. No adjustments have been made to account for powerplay time, which obviously will favour those players. That said, the starkest contrast of all can be seen in the plus/minus columns, where the prime timers have been awesome while all other groups have bled goals against. This is particularly noticeable in the age 23-25 bracket, where several still-not-ready-for-prime-time players have posted some underwhelming numbers at both ends of the rink: Robert Nilsson, 1 goal, -12; J.F. Jacques, 2 goals, -9; Patrick O'Sullivan, 4 goals, -11. Ouch, ouch, and more ouch.

I'm not for a moment suggesting that if the Oilers added a couple more players in their prime years they would produce on the level of Dustin Penner and Ales Hemsky. I do, however, think the team would benefit from having something resembling a "cluster" of players around those peak years. It was a problem identified last year, and one that was hardly solved with the addition of Mike Comrie

Without getting into a statistical breakdown on the blueline, it is readily apparent that the Oilers have another big split in the experience levels of their players. Of the 8 players with 10+ GP, four of them are currently age 26 or younger (Gilbert turns 27 in January), and the other four age 33 or older. Only 29-year-old Dean Arsene (2 GP) fills the void in between those two groups. And in goal it's more of the same, where the choice is between old and breaking down or young and inexperienced.

On the roster as a whole, the Oilers have already used 31 players in 2009-10. Just 5 of those players -- Penner, Horcoff, Comrie, Arsene, and the departed Steve MacIntyre for goodness sake -- are currently between the ages of 27-32.

Early results suggest it is not a recipe for success.

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You’ve been banging this drum for awhile now and you’ve made me a believer.

This is particularly noticeable in the age 23-25 bracket, where several still-not-ready-for-prime-time players have posted some underwhelming numbers at both ends of the rink: Robert Nilsson, 1 goal, -12; J.F. Jacques, 2 goals, -9; Patrick O’Sullivan, 4 goals, -11. Ouch, ouch, and more ouch.

Nilsson’s track record is better than that and I suspect he just had a shitty run, or he’s not being protected by MacT and suffering. If the forwards are going to match as they did against San Jose, Quinn would be wise to get Nilsson back in there and protected a bit.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Nov 29, 2009 9:38 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I’d like to see Nilsson get another shot. Our skill quotient has taken a massive hit with the loss of Hemsky, and while Rowbert is no Ales, he’s got a little more slick on his stick than most of these slugs. While I refuse to believe he is quite as bad as his horrific numbers indicate, he has dug quite a hole for himself. Minus-12 in 153 minutes? Egads.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

by Bruce McCurdy on Nov 29, 2009 10:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I certainly agree with what you’ve laid out here Bruce. I’m not so sure that a team really needs to have a bunch of prime time guys in key roles to succeed so much as they need good hockey players, but most of the best hockey players are in their prime. Given the number of bodies between 23 and 25 taking two years to rebuild might leave us with some nice things ready out the other side. If they can pick up a couple of impact drafts to go along with Hemsky, Penner (late prime for those two) and a supporting cast in their prime years the team could be solid. Just a couple more years of purgatory.

With regard to Ender’s point about drafts, it’s a good one, though the Oilers also exiled a bunch of useful pieces they picked up between the 1999 through 2003 drafts. Some misses in their record in those years to be sure, but they also lost all of Stoll, Greene, Winchester and Brodziak (and Torres, though they didn’t draft him) for a combination of Visnovsky and picks (and Brule). Those moves are a big part of the gap as well.

by Scott Reynolds on Nov 30, 2009 2:58 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, Scott. It is a pretty unusual situation that in the identified age groups Oilers have just the 2 forwards and they happen to be the 2 guys who have been carrying the mail, making for some pretty extreme results. I would be more than happy to see a couple of guys in support roles who were a little closer to their peak, even if that peak wasn’t quite so lofty. It seems like most of the guys on the club are 2, 3 or more years away from their best, be that in the future or the past.

Good points about the guys they let get away. I love Visnovsky but I was somewhat outspoken about that trade both at the time and pretty much ever since cuz of what we gave up: two Actual NHL Players™ that looked to be developing solid careers. They were about to be paid, but so was the guy coming in, and he will have to stay both high-end and healthy deep into his 30s for that pact not to become another contractual millstone with an even bigger ticket than some of the well-past-their-prime vets Oilers are paying today.

To further your last point, since the end of the ’07-08 season — which is to say, since the arrival of Steve Tambellini — the Oilers have moved the following guys: Raffi Torres (now 28), Curtis Glencross (27), Jarret Stoll (27), Joni Pitkanen (26), Matt Greene (26), Mathieu Roy (26), and Kyle Brodziak (25). As you point out what they got back was either much older (Vis), much younger (Brulé), picks, or absolutely nothing in the cases of GlenX and Patrick Thoresen (26) who was let go earlier that season.

In the late prime category Oilers had both Erik Cole (now 31) and Ales Kotalik (31) last year, but traded one for another developing player who has created more problems than he has solved to this point, and let the other walk due to cap space issues. Thus in the over 30 crowd we have 1 player in the 30-32 range (Horcoff) and no fewer than 7 over 33 (Visnovsky, Souray, Pisani, Moreau, Strudwick, Staios, Khabibulin). Most of those guys have multiple years to run at significant-to-very-significant dollars, and it’s impossible to visualize them improving as a group as time wears on. Unfortunately, it’s much much easier to visualize the Oilers turning up their noses at younger veterans on the UFA market like, say, Alex Tanguay, Manny Malhotra, and Dominic Moore (just to mention three who got a lot of play on the Oilogosphere this past summer), simply because they’ve painted themselves into a corner cap-wise. Like it or not — and I certainly don’t — the Oilers have cast their lot with older guys with declining health and skills and a large mass of younger guys who are still on the steep part of the learning curve.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

by Bruce McCurdy on Nov 30, 2009 9:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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Northwest Standings

GP W L OTL PT
Vancouver 67 41 23 3 85
Colorado 66 37 23 6 80
Calgary 66 33 24 9 75
Minnesota 65 31 28 6 68
Edmonton 66 21 39 6 48

(updated 3.11.2010 at 6:23 AM PST)

21 - 39 - 6

Lost 1

Oilers Stats Leaders

Stat

Forwards

Defense

TOI/G:

Horcoff (19:31)

Gilbert (21:50)

ESTOI/G:

Horcoff (14:40)

Grebeshkov (17:16)

Points:

Penner (48)

Visnovsky (32)

Goals:

Penner (24)

Visnovsky (10)

Assists:

Penner (24)

Visnovsky (22)

EV+/- /15

Penner (.122)

Smid (.090)

Shots:

Penner (169)

Visnovsky (78)

Corsi/15:

Penner(.675)

Visnovsky (.460)

SCF/15:

Penner (5.017)

Visnovsky (4.517)

SCA/15:

Stortini (3.954)

Gilbert (4.260)

SCDiff/15:

Penner (.581)

Visnovsky (.122)


Managing Editor

Kurri_small Derek Zona

Columnists

Cooper_small Jonathan Willis

Laraque_horcoff_250x360_small Scott Reynolds

Zorg_small Bruce McCurdy

Esaandstanley_small Benjamin Massey

European Desk

Keanu_small JohanBarrander