Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Win or Lose, Boston Celtics' New Big 3 Era A Success

Should the Oilers Swap Mediocre, Speedy Forwards?

Earlier this week, well-known hockey site The Fourth Period speculated that the Montreal Canadiens are interested in moving the Kostitsyn brothers.

Well, that's hardly news. Elder brother Andrei Kostitsyn, 24, was signed to a three-year extension beginning last season with a cap hit of $3.25 million per year. Kostitsyn scored 23 goals and 41 points last year, but even that was a drop from his previous year's performance. He's never been known for his defensive play or his productive, team-first attitude. He and Sergei were linked last year to the a gang bust which, even though it was completely unproven and later shot down by the courts, was called "the darkest day in Canadiens history" by people prone to overreacting without evidence.

Better yet, young Sergei Kostitsyn has been angsting over whether he wants to play in the American Hockey League at all this season. Sergei played fifty-six NHL games last year and recorded twenty-three points: in short, he was Robert Nilsson. But Sergei is younger than Robert and has a much better contract, although Kostitsyn isn't exactly tearing the cover off the ball in the AHL.

No, there's no surprise that the Canadiens are looking at trading the Kostitsyns. The only surprise is when the Fourth Period says the Oilers are interested. And even more than that, the name being thrown around is alleged wunderkind Andrew Cogliano.

Nobody wants the Oilers to add more soft forwards. But giving a soft winger back in the process?

 

Star-divide

The Copper & Blue is not known for its rousing defense of Andrew Cogliano. Frequent phrases include "treading water" and "has he actually developed as a hockey player, like, at all since he was nineteen?". But he's two years younger than Andrei Kostitsyn and both have a reputation as smooth floaters. Cogliano makes less money, and though he becomes a restricted free agent at the end of the year it's hard to believe he'll end up drawing Andrei's salary without a sudden and entirely unpredicted offensive outpour. Andrei Kostitsyn had that common form of luck where his career year matched the last year of his contract.

Among Oiler forwards to play at least forty games last year, Cogliano was eighth in QUALCOMP and ninth in QUALTEAM: in short, he was a third liner. With a plus-minus per 60 even strength minutes of -0.06, he didn't quite manage to saw off those mediocre opponents. That number has markedly improved to 0.65 so far this year while treading water in QUALCOMP and QUALTEAM, though it's early. So Cogliano isn't really good and can't handle tough matchups, but if he's not progressing he's at least taking care of himself.

When you look at Andrei Kostitsyn's numbers last season, they're unimpressive in a lot of ways. His plus-minus per sixty was -0.41, fourth-worst among qualifying Canadiens forwards. He scored 1.03 goals per sixty, well ahead of Cogliano and third on the Canadiens, but 0.48 assists per sixty was worse than, among many others, his brother Sergei.

There are two interesting points in Kostitsyn's favour. First off, his QUALTEAM was second worst among Habs forwards who played at least forty games last year, better than only the great Glen Metropolit. But his QUALCOMP was first. By the numbers, he was playing the toughest possible opponents with the worst possible linemates. He was found wanting but who wouldn't be? QUALCOMP and QUALTEAM numbers aren't perfect, but that is a remarkable statistic.

Second, Kostitsyn had a PDO number of 989 in 2008-09, tied for third worst on the Canadiens with Metropolit. For those who aren't familiar with the PDO number, it is the sum of a team's 5v5 shooting percentage and save percentage when the player in question is on the ice. By definition, 1000 is the league average. Bearing in mind that Kostitsyn shot 13.6% last year, it indicates that he was being let down by his linemates' shooting percentages and his goaltender's save percentage; that his plus-minus was so poor because his puck luck stank. Andrew Cogliano had a PDO of 1011 (actually pretty poor on the Oilers) while shooting 15.5%. So, with only a 1.9% swing in individual shooting percentage between Cogliano and Kostitsyn, Cogliano's PDO was 22 points above Kostitsyn's. Cogliano's linemates were helping his numbers and Kostitsyn's were hurting his.

That's just a long way of saying that, comparing Andrei's numbers to Andrew, Kostitsyn looks worse than he actually is.

Andrei Kostitsyn may well be a better NHL player than Andrew Cogliano. In his 22-year-old season, Kostitsyn scored twenty-six goals and fifty-three points. With eight points so far this year, Cogliano is clearly not going to do that. But Sergei Kostitsyn looks like a pretty marginal prospect and the brutal cap difference between Cogliano and Andrei Kostitsyn swings me.

The Oilers already have too much tied up in soft forwards who can't outscore. Unless the Canadiens have a driving need for Ethan Moreau, the Oilers would be adding nearly two million bucks in salary while making a slightly-better-than-lateral move for the third line wing.

I'm not an Andrew Cogliano fan, but is that anyone's idea of a smart move?

Poll
As an Oilers fan, which would you rather have?
Andrei and Sergei Kostitsyn
43 votes
Andrew Cogliano
124 votes
Neither
44 votes

211 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 13 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Neither. I’d rather have Latendresse.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Nov 25, 2009 8:12 AM MST reply actions  

Soft, Offensive Forwards

Matheson said a few weeks back
the Oilers are not interested in these two Belorussians.

Of course, he made the same assertion about Mike Comrie

My vote, keep your powder dry Tambo

by Mr DeBakey on Nov 25, 2009 9:47 AM MST reply actions  

Not unless “Kostitsyn” is Belarussian for “Crust’n’jam”.

Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries

by Bruce McCurdy on Nov 25, 2009 10:17 AM MST up reply actions  

If they fought puck carriers as effectively as they fight their own front office, you couldn’t stop them.

by Benjamin Massey on Nov 25, 2009 10:26 AM MST up reply actions  

Or as often as they fought Mikhail Grabovski.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.

by Doogie2K on Nov 26, 2009 12:17 PM MST up reply actions  

I have to admit, I expected the Kostitsyns to do better than they’re doing.

Andrei’s underlying numbers are pretty good. It’s just the salary.

by Benjamin Massey on Nov 25, 2009 11:19 AM MST reply actions  

Gainey is crazier than Lowe

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Nov 25, 2009 12:05 PM MST up reply actions  

could we?

could we replace cogs with o’sullivan? or does cogs still shine brighter because he’s younger?

by jfry on Nov 25, 2009 12:41 PM MST reply actions  

I went with Cogliano over O’Lanterns because that’s what the rumour site suggested and it’s an interesting thought experiment.

I can’t get behind trading O’Sullivan for another team’s problem. Not yet, anyway. I saw too much good from him in Los Angeles to think that he’s a stiff.

by Benjamin Massey on Nov 25, 2009 12:51 PM MST up reply actions  

Misplaying Cogliano?

If Cogliano was being desired as a trading piece, shouldn’t the team be giving him at least some of the chances they are giving to POS?

PP after PP where he lobs his muffins into crest, I just keep telling myself that padding the stats must be the reason why POS gets the PP time and linemates over Cogliano. That, or they are deflating Cogliano’s stats for negotiations. No-one deserves to be tied to Moreau’s hip for that much ice-time.

by till_horcoff_is_coach on Nov 25, 2009 12:47 PM MST reply actions  

Limiting Cogliano’s ice time is probably because he’s got a worse history handling big guns than, say, Liam Reddox does. Not putting him on the powerplay point is also understandable; he’s a high percentage shooter but that’s because he shoots in close and he’s always been a rotten puck distributor.

Not to say that Patrick O’Sullivan on the point does make sense. But there’s a reason you don’t often see the ol’ reverse pump-and-dump (the grump-and-chump?): because it’s a good way to lose hockey games.

by Benjamin Massey on Nov 25, 2009 12:50 PM MST up reply actions  

No-one deserves to be tied to Moreau’s hip for that much ice-time.

I don’t think that Cogs has ever pulled his weight as a pro, but that’s a sentiment I can get behind.

Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.

by Derek Zona on Nov 25, 2009 1:09 PM MST up reply actions  

He and Sergei were linked last year to the a gang bust which, even though it was completely unproven and later shot down by the courts, was called “the darkest day in Canadiens history” by people prone to overreacting without evidence.

You mean bloggers?

/Terry Jones’d

So, with only a 1.9% swing in individual shooting percentage between Cogliano and Kostitsyn, Cogliano’s PDO was 22 points above Kostitsyn’s. Cogliano’s linemates were helping his numbers and Kostitsyn’s were hurting his.

By 0.3%, if I’m reading this correctly, which isn’t exactly statistically significant. (Unless I’m conceptualizing this wrong, and the effect of Cogliano’s S% is mitigated by the others on the ice.) More to the point, Montreal’s goaltending was much worse than Edmonton’s last year, so if anything, wouldn’t Kostitsyn’s linemates be helping him more by boosting his on-ice S% to at least partially overcome the goaltending?

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.

by Doogie2K on Nov 26, 2009 12:19 PM MST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to SB Nation's Edmonton Oilers community.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Ryan_2008_small
The Oilers Begin the Road to Rebuilding
Small
Oilers Next Head Coach
Small
Josh Anderson Scouting Report
Small
The 2012 NHL Draft and Combine - the Fanpost Almanac
Chambers-john_small
Risk Reward Radulov
Small
Joonas Korpisalo Scouting Report
2012-01-21-012338_small
Oilers Prospect Frans Tuohimaa Signs an Extension with Jokerit
Small
Ryan Murray - The Numbers
Chambers-john_small
Cody Hodgson, the game within the game, and inattention to detail
Small
Hong Kong Animators Draw NHL Violence

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

32 - 40 - 10

Lost 3

Clear Victory Standings

Western Conference

  1. Detroit Red Wings (27-11, .711)
  2. St. Louis Blues (24-10, .706)
  3. Vancouver Canucks (22-10, .688)
  4. Los Angeles Kings (18-11, .621)
  5. San Jose Sharks (18-13, .581)
  6. Phoenix Coyotes (20-15, .571)
  7. Nashville Predators (18-14, .563)
  8. Chicago Blackhawks (21-19, .525)
  9. Colorado Avalanche (16-19, .457)
  10. Dallas Stars (18-22, .450)
  11. Anaheim Ducks (14-19, .424)
  12. Edmonton Oilers (18-25, .419)
  13. Calgary Flames (13-21, .382)
  14. Columbus Blue Jackets (14-31, .311)
  15. Minnesota Wild (8-22,.267)

Eastern Conference

  1. Pittsburgh Penguins (31-13, .711)
  2. Boston Bruins (27-11, .711)
  3. New York Rangers (25-16, .610)
  4. Philadelphia Flyers (21-17, .553)
  5. New Jersey Devils (18-16, .529)
  6. Ottawa Senators (19-17, .528)
  7. Washington Capitals (20-19, .513)
  8. Montreal Canadiens (16-19, .457)
  9. Winnipeg Jets (15-19, .441)
  10. Buffalo Sabres (14-18, .438)
  11. Carolina Hurricanes (13-17, .433)
  12. Florida Panthers (14-19, .424)
  13. Toronto Maple Leafs (17-24, .415)
  14. New York Islanders (8-23, .258)
  15. Tampa Bay Lightning (10-30, .250)

Division Standings

  1. Central (79-58, .577)
  2. Atlantic (68-50, .576)
  3. Pacific (62-54, .534)
  4. Northeast (69-65, .515)
  5. Northwest (49-69, .415)
  6. Southeast (51-81, .386)


Managing Editor

Kurri_small Derek Zona

Laraque_horcoff_250x360_small Scott Reynolds

Columnists

Batman_small ryanbatty

0615pisani_small dawgbone98

Neal_small Neal Livingston

Mike_small Mike Wntrz

Small Alan Hull

Contributors

Newtwitter2_small Jonathan Willis

Mccurdycloseup_small Bruce McCurdy

Esaandstanley_small Benjamin Massey

Me_smyth_bobblehead3__1_of_1__small Lisa McRitchie

Small Triumph44

Gyi0062208469-bobrovsky_small Chase W

Small JaredL