My thoughts on Flyers and the Blackhawks
by SumOil on May 26, 2010 7:15 AM MDT
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PrintEditor's Note: This was a FanPost, originally published by SumOil on Oct 19, 2009 11:35 AM EDT. SumOil is some kind of seer. At least I was right about that President's Trophy thing.
After the Bruins traded Chuck Kobasew for cap relief purposes, I was curious to see which other teams are right up the cap limit. Two teams interested me. The Flyers and the Blackhawks (No this is not a post to talk about their cap problems.) Looking at their roster, I started to feel how similar the two teams are.
Jonathan Toews is like Mike Richards but not as good
Patrick Kane is like Jeff Carter but not as good
Patrick Sharp is like Simon Gagne but not as good
Dustin Byfuglien is like Scott Hartnell but not as good
Kris Versteeg is like Danny Briere but not as good
John Madden is like Blair Betts but better
Brent Seabrook is like Chris Pronger but not as good
Duncan Keith is like Kimmo Timonen but not as good
Brian Campbell is like Matt Carle but better
Niklas Hjalmarsson is like Ryan Parent
Philly is 6th in PK and Chicago is 7th.
Both teams have shaky goaltending. Both teams should compete for the President's trophy.
Isnt it crazy??
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I can’t see a team with that goaltending situation competing for the President’s trophy.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
Understood, but you underestimate the bad goaltending.
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
New comment with a season's worth of perspective
Richards is fantastic but Toews doesn’t have to take a back seat to anybody. Two terrific captains who can do it all, in all three zones and any manpower situation. Both Olympic gold medallists have been wonderful in the playoffs.
Today I’ll take Byfuglien over Hartnell.
Today I’ll take Keith over Timonen, but absolutely love both players.
I’d be more likely to comp Kane with Briere, and Hossa with Carter.
Philly matches up a lot better than the regular season standings might suggest. They came back from the dead to make the playoffs, and now that they’re healthy they’re tougher than coackroaches.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
What do you think of PHI’s almost exclusive dependence on their top-4 D, combined with CHI being miles better than NJD, BOS, or MTL?
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Red Line Station: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
(note name change)
by red army line on May 26, 2010 10:28 AM MDT up reply actions
Well, Chicago relies on 5 defenders, with #5 (literally) being Brent Sopel, who’s no flaming hell to my eye. #6 (also literally) is Jordan Hendry who has been heavily sheltered at just 8 minutes a game.
Philly’s big 4 are soaking up the ice time and playing well, but it’s true that they will face a tougher opponent with more offensive punch than anything they saw down east. (Jersey had some decent firepower up front, but nowhere near the attack options from the back end.) They’re in tough to hang with the Hawks, but “in tough” seems to be a comfortable environment for the Flyers.
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on May 26, 2010 10:38 AM MDT up reply actions
Looking at the numbers, PHI’s 5-6 get about 10 mins and 8 mins respectively. At the very least though they’ll be able to ride the forwards harder, as their TOI/G leader up front is Richards at 21-22 mins per game.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Red Line Station: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
(note name change)
by red army line on May 26, 2010 10:44 AM MDT up reply actions
Well the pairing of sopel and hendry is not really that good either, And CHicago is heavily dependent on their top 4 as well. The thing that is going for Chicago and against Philly is the fact that Chicago has beaten much tougher competition to get to where they are now. Philly met an inferior opponent every round.
Seems like Philly will have to “raise their game” more than CHI. It helps to ride your best players harder, but PHI can’t ride their top-4 D much harder. I guess it’ll have to come from the forwards.
Cидни Kросби: Александр Oвечкин, он твой папа теперь
Red Line Station: for Capitals fans who can bear reading something less intelligent than a story at Japers' Rink
(note name change)
by red army line on May 29, 2010 8:16 AM MDT up reply actions
There’s no way that Timonen > Keith.
A posse ad esse.
The Copper & Blue|OilersNation|Hockey or Die!
Twitter: @JonathanWillis
Mail: jonathan.willis@live.ca
by Jonathan Willis on May 26, 2010 10:32 AM MDT reply actions
this was one year ago before the season started, Now Keith > Timmonen
Byfuglien better than Hertnell
Niemi> Leighton
Geez, I missed that. Interesting stuff.
A posse ad esse.
The Copper & Blue|OilersNation|Hockey or Die!
Twitter: @JonathanWillis
Mail: jonathan.willis@live.ca
by Jonathan Willis on May 26, 2010 2:12 PM MDT up reply actions
Tom Awad's GVT numbers...
Jonathan Toews is like Mike Richards but not as good
Toews is 17.1
Richards is 14.6
Patrick Kane is like Jeff Carter but not as good
Kane is 19.1
Carter is 13.3
Patrick Sharp is like Simon Gagne but not as good
Sharp is 14.4
Gagne is 7.3
Dustin Byfuglien is like Scott Hartnell but not as good
Byfuglien is 1.9
Hartnel is 5.1
Kris Versteeg is like Danny Briere but not as good
Versteeg is 9.4
Briere is 9.2
John Madden is like Blair Betts but better
Madden is 2.87
Betts is 4.2
Brent Seabrook is like Chris Pronger but not as good
Seabrook is 11.1
Pronger is 18.5
Duncan Keith is like Kimmo Timonen but not as good
Keith is 22.4
Timonen is 10.4
Brian Campbell is like Matt Carle but better
Campbell is 11.4
Carle is 10.6
Niklas Hjalmarsson is like Ryan Parent
Hjalmarsson is 6.2
Parent is -1.1
So the GVT numbers disagree with your assessment 7 out of 10 times…
FanPost, originally published by SumOil on Oct 19, 2009 11:35 AM EDT
Editor of The Copper & Blue, and leader of The Cult Of Hartikainen.
1) SumOil’s piece was written in October
2) GVT doesn’t account for playoffs, which would significnatly change the value of guys like Byfuglien and Briere
Writer for The Copper & Blue and primary shareholder of Zorg Industries
"Never be ashamed of who you are" -- Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg
by Bruce McCurdy on May 26, 2010 11:29 AM MDT up reply actions
GVT is also completely results based and does not take luck or context into consideration at all. I tend not to like it because it tries to be a catch-all “silver bullet” type statistic.
by Scott Reynolds on May 26, 2010 12:02 PM MDT up reply actions
Doesn’t GVT focus more on Corsi-type stuff on the DVT side (i.e. not just results based)?
I don’t think anyone would suggest a “silver bullet” stat (like WAR in baseball) is even possible in hockey, but would you disagree that GVT can at least be a useful starting point for comparing hockey players?
by The '67 Sound on May 27, 2010 2:04 PM MDT up reply actions
Wow great foresight, eh?
Last Fall I would have agreed with most of these; now not so much, especially Hjammer and Parent (/lol).
You know why they call you LU? Because you're retarded. And you're ugly. You're an ugly retard. And they call you LU because you're ugly and retarded.
And you'll always be LU... LU, LU, LU. And that's what I'm gonna call you for the rest of your life, is LU, LU, LU, LU, LU, okay? So fuck you.
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