"Forever A Flawed Gem"
That line comes out of the 2008-09 McKeen’s Hockey Yearbook. It’s the last line in a description of Ed Jovanovski, the ex-Canucks defenseman. It's also a remarkably succinct summary that could be applied to whole groups of players across the National Hockey League. Ilya Kovalchuk is perhaps the best player in that group, a pure-offense player of incredible quality, but not exactly a well-rounded performer. I remember watching a lot of Canucks games when Ed Jovanovski was still in Vancouver. This was Burke's team, a cast which experienced change but was anchored around the core players: Bertuzzi-Morrison-Naslund up front, Jovanovski and Ohlund on the back end, and Dan Cloutier in net. The Sedins were there too, but were still too young to have a major impact.
My dad (a Canucks fan) and I had a recurring discussion about Jovanovski vs. Ohlund - which was the better player, if it came down to making a choice between the two, which would you keep, that sort of thing. We both agreed that Ohlund was by far the better defenseman, and I think history has born that out. Jovanovski had some fairly elite-level offensive seasons (2000-2003) in a Canucks uniform, and was beloved for his physical game. If I remember correctly, he even recieved some Norris Trophy consideration.
Jovanovski looked lots better when paired with Marek Malik, a defense-first blue-liner who combined size and intelligence with a nearly non-existent hitting game and slow foot speed. Still, positionally he was (and by the numbers, remains) a brilliant player, and he compensated for Jovanovski's inability to make smart decisions anywhere on the wrong side of centre ice.
The thing about Jovanovski is that the fans loved him. He threw big hits, he fought, and most importantly, he put up nice totals in offensive categories. I'd wager that if Canucks fans had been polled during his heyday on the question my dad and I considered (vs. Ohlund), the overwhelming majority would say that Jovanovski was the better player, the player worth keeping. That sounds like a knock on Canucks fans, but it really isn't - I'd be willing to bet that if the Oilers had those two players today at that juncture of their careers, the results would be the same among the Edmonton fanbase.
The 2002-03 playoffs really show what Jovanovski is in a nutshell. That stats line doesn't always accurately indicate player ability, or performance, but in this case it does:
14GP - 7G - 1A - 8PTS - -5 - 22 PIM
That's an incredible goal-scoring pace, and I remember the play-by-play guy on CBC talking about what a great player Jovanovski had been during the playoffs. Still, my memory wasn't those goals, but the number of times Cloutier would angrily shovel the puck out of his net, and Jovanovski would dejectedly come skating back into his own zone from the other side of the blueline (Cloutier had ugly numbers that year, but he really wasn't that bad - it was the style of game that team played, and the sheer volume of quality chances they surrendered). Naslund was much the same.
Even thinking back to 2003-04, when the Canucks and Flames had an excellent 7-game opening series, the memory that stands out is Ed Jovanovski in front of his own net, with minutes left in the third period of game seven, and his team down by one goal, cross-checking a Flames forward in the back of the head. He did it once, and I shook my head. He did it a second time, and I looked at the motionless referee. The third time, the hand shot up, the whistle blew, and Jovanovski went to the box. Either Matt Cooke or Trent Klatt scored short-handed (Note: It was actually 5-on-4 for Vancouver, with Auld pulled, because Andrew Ference had earlier taken a penalty) to tie the game (I can't recall which, both had big goals that series) and Martin Gelinas finished it off in early overtime (IIRC) before Jovanovski's penalty expired.
The point is, for all of the flash and ability of aplayer like Jovanovski, he isn't the kind of guy a contending team can have too many of. One-dimensional players (whether for offense or defense) can be of great value in a given role, but too many of one kind spells disaster. The year Tampa Bay won their Stanley Cup, they had Vincent Lecavalier, but they also had Brad Richards and Tim Taylor behind him, and those guys played important roles too, offsetting Lecavalier's deficiencies.
I also don't believe that GM's hould hand out big contracts to one-dimensional players. Guys like Lecavalier and Kovalchuk cost the same as players like Jarome Iginla and Henrik Zetterberg, but there really isn't any doubt who I would rather have on the ice as a coach, or which player brings more to a team. It's the reason that players like Shawn Horcoff and Fernando Pisani are so valuable - they're complete players, albeit at different levels. Player payment seems based, almost exclusively, on offensive ability. Doesn't it make sense to go after the guy who can play on both sides of the red-line if the cost is the same as the one-trick pony?
23 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
by Ender on Sep 18, 2008 12:34 PM MDT reply actions
Teams consistently do better when they are on the court than when they are off of it. And they don't show up much on the stats page.
Those are the guys an NHL team needs too imo. Guys who help you win at a rate that's higher than you have to pay them (if that makes sense).
On roundball, I think they made Duncan to be the biggest difference-maker (this was maybe 3 years ago). And Marbury as a guy who Cuban consultant Wayne winston referred to as someone who (roughly and by memory) ... is thought of as a great player, and he does have great offensive skills, but he gives it all back at the other end of the court.
Another thing with hockey, is that often these kids grow into more complete players just when you've given up hope (SEE Savard). Hell, we all pissed on the Ribiero contract, and he is a one dimensional player, he was on the ice for all of three own-zone draws in the entire series vs ANA in the playoffs I think. But by the time he's near the end of that contract he may very well being playing the kind of ice time that Modano does now, And DAL will no doubt have found another young guy with big skills to take the vacated Ribiero gig.
As an aside: I hate the Stars.
by Vic Ferrari on Sep 18, 2008 1:52 PM MDT reply actions
As for Jovnovsky being one-dimensional - potentially true - but I have seen him play good defensively as well (this spring in the World Championships for instance). Canada was up when MacT was riding him hard in the first against Russia and they folded when MacT pulled Jovo's reign's back in ice time.
by Kyle on Sep 18, 2008 2:16 PM MDT reply actions
by Jonathan Willis on Sep 18, 2008 3:23 PM MDT reply actions
Completely agree - that's what I was driving at, to a large degree. I guess the other thing I was saying was seperating things that actually help a team win from things that are negligible (i.e. big open-ice hits).
Another thing with hockey, is that often these kids grow into more complete players just when you've given up hope (SEE Savard).
Savard's an interesting fellow. Had Bergeron not gone down last season, I really wonde if we would have seen that change. I also wonder if it will carry through to this year - given the style Julien coaches, it wouldn't surprise me.
Hell, we all pissed on the Ribiero contract, and he is a one dimensional player, he was on the ice for all of three own-zone draws in the entire series vs ANA in the playoffs I think. But by the time he's near the end of that contract he may very well being playing the kind of ice time that Modano does now, And DAL will no doubt have found another young guy with big skills to take the vacated Ribiero gig.
Maybe it's wrong of me to credit the coach too much, but I think the way Stars players mature has a ton to do with the fact that first Hitchcock and now Tippet coached the team.
Outside of that, even if Ribeiro does turn into a 2-way guy, he still won't be worth the money because is offensive game isn't going to be as good on a sustainable basis as it was this year.
by Jonathan Willis on Sep 18, 2008 3:34 PM MDT reply actions
I haven't watched Jovanovski enough since he left Vancouver to know for sure (although the numbers seem to indicate he's still the same player in Phoenix), but that's an interesting point. Guess I should've made some time for the Worlds this summer.
by Jonathan Willis on Sep 18, 2008 3:40 PM MDT reply actions
Ference got a penalty with about 90 seconds left in the game with the Flames up by 1. Not marginal exactly, but not awful either. Canucks pressed on the PP but couldn't score, and then Special Ed took that penalty which evened things up.
Cooke scored with 6 secs left 4v4 (or 5v4 rather, since Auld was pulled), and of course OT started 4v4. But then the Flames penalty expired about a minute before Ed's did, and Gelinas scored in that minute. So yeah, he took a stupid penalty, it just didn't put the Canucks down a man, it evened things up (which may have been the reason why the ref blew the whistle, and didn't let him do it several more times).
Anyway, good post!
by Matt on Sep 18, 2008 3:44 PM MDT reply actions
Cooke scored with 6 secs left 4v4 (or 5v4 rather, since Auld was pulled), and of course OT started 4v4.
Thanks, Matt. It's been a few years, so the specifics have started to fade (although that was a great game to watch - exciting and a ridiculous comeback by Calgary).
by Jonathan Willis on Sep 18, 2008 4:23 PM MDT reply actions
by dstaples on Sep 19, 2008 9:35 AM MDT reply actions
Really? I always thought that Pitkanen's problem was that he couldn't consistently generate offense, along with the fact that a light headache meant a trip to the injured reserve.
Always figured he was under-rated as a defensive player.
And no, I'm not willing to discuss errors ;)
by Jonathan Willis on Sep 19, 2008 9:43 AM MDT reply actions
In terms of their on-ice game, and the way that their coaches employ them.
by Vic Ferrari on Sep 19, 2008 2:06 PM MDT reply actions
In terms of their on-ice game, and the way that their coaches employ them.
Aside, of course, from the fact that both spend a ton of time a) injured and b) on the powerpaly. And when it comes to B, their performances are certainly not in the same ballpark.
by Jonathan Willis on Sep 19, 2008 2:19 PM MDT reply actions
This team is going to miss Pitkanen at evens though. Torres too. You need players who can take on the best from the other team with out getting shelled, and that can get the momentum going the other way.
And as slipper always reminds us, that shitload of own-zone draws against Sakic, Smyth, Iginla, Gaborik and the Sedins didn't move to L.A and Atlanta with Stoll and Reasoner. Those game situations are still going to be there (though hopefully fewer in number this time around), and somebody is still going to have to play them.
The fact that a lot of radio callers, and most of this marjet's journalist, are completely oblivious to a lot of the little things that happen in hockey games ... that doesn't mean that they don't exist. You'd agree, no?
by Vic Ferrari on Sep 19, 2008 2:34 PM MDT reply actions
It's a real shame people don't clue into this about Torres. He wasn't getting quite the same nasty situations as Stoll/Reasoner, but he was facing quality opposition and he was keeping his head above water. That's got a ton of value, given the number of players who can't do it.
And as slipper always reminds us, that shitload of own-zone draws against Sakic, Smyth, Iginla, Gaborik and the Sedins didn't move to L.A and Atlanta with Stoll and Reasoner. Those game situations are still going to be there (though hopefully fewer in number this time around), and somebody is still going to have to play them.
Gregor's got a piece up at OilersNation right now, and apparently the third line is going to be Moreau - Pisani - Penner, with 34 in the middle. I'm not sure what he's like on the faceoff dot, but moving him to the middle effectively says that MacTavish doesn't trust any other player on the roster (outside of Horcoff) to take those minutes. He's also giving him some (presumably) quality wingers to help him out, and that speaks volumes to me.
The fact that a lot of radio callers, and most of this marjet's journalist, are completely oblivious to a lot of the little things that happen in hockey games ... that doesn't mean that they don't exist. You'd agree, no?
Yeah, without hesitation. I've been oblivious in the past, and in the future will no doubt discover things that I'm oblivious to now, but all of that stuff really, really matters. Lots more than the fifty or so cliches that get tossed around as "reporting" (something that is by no means isolated to Edmonton - and I don't think Edmonton has the worst group of media guys by any stretch either).
by Jonathan Willis on Sep 19, 2008 2:46 PM MDT reply actions
Horcoff made the transition from winger to NHL centre pretty well under MacTavish, though to my eye us was half a season before he started looking as good as he had on the wing.
Pisani is a heady player though, he should fair well. Hopefully he's okay on the dot, though those wingers should help in that regard as well. I'm guessing that Penner will take the draws on the left hand dot, and be the defacto centre from there on out for the shift, or at least that part of the shift.
It would be nice to have a big player like Penner (ever met him? He's like one and a half people) out there against guys that are physically hard to stop; Arnott, Tkachuk, Nash, Modano, Sedins, Getzlaf, Doan, etc.
by Vic Ferrari on Sep 19, 2008 3:17 PM MDT reply actions
Yeah, it'll be an adjustment, but if anyone can make it, it will be Pisani.
As for faceoffs, I wonder if Penner isn't just going to get most of them out-right; I did a quick check and Pisani has gone 21/73 in the faceoff dot since 2002. That's not a lot of data, but I can't see him being the go-to RH centre.
by Jonathan Willis on Sep 19, 2008 3:23 PM MDT reply actions
Although, given that most of those were wave-outs, that probably skews the data to the point that it's almost without value.
by Jonathan Willis on Sep 19, 2008 3:37 PM MDT reply actions
And man, Fernie's a smart player, but isn't he on the wrong side of 30 to be learning a new position?
by Schitzo on Sep 19, 2008 7:14 PM MDT reply actions
Mactvaish has tried this in the past with Pisani, and Smyth, and Penner last year, but he has has always abandoned the project.
by Bank Shot on Sep 20, 2008 10:25 AM MDT reply actions
D'Oh! Of course you're right. Had it in my head that every player on the starboard side is a righty.
I really liked Pisani at centre the only game that I remember him playing there, vs Minny in the 3rd or 4th game after the deadline deals for Samsonov and Roloson.
I'm not too worried about the faceoff thing, that will come in time. I'm sure that in the back half of the 03/04 season that Smyth was at or over 50% on the dot, and was since too, though I haven't checked. He's the first guy back a lot and plays the '1F back' role a bunch anyways in most games, especially when he played with Stoll.
Strange that Moreau hasn't been mentioned for the gig, when both Penner and Pisani have been pondered. In the offensive end of the rink he seems like the best choice, he's smart and experienced enough to know when to stay high, and he can score from further out than the other guys. Maybe they just don't think that he has the game in his own end, maybe the memories of SCF game 1 are still in MacTavish's head (crowd noise or no, Huddy and MacTavish have to find a way to communicate, that was unforgivable to have Moreau subbed on for Hemsky(?) when Smith had pinched, has to be a D come on there instead of Ethan.)
by Vic Ferrari on Sep 22, 2008 10:48 AM MDT reply actions
Thanks for the link to the Gregor post BTW. For me, the really curious thing about that is he chooses to write down MacTavish's most relevant quote of the preseason, the bit about the kid line continuing to be put in a position to succeed.
Now every coach in the league will be willing to tell you who is playing the tough minutes, but none will come right out and say who is playing the soft, even though basic logic tells us that some fuckers must be. "position to succeed" is a Keenanism, of course. And apparently Gregor 'doesn't believe' in soft minutes. Good Lord, what the hell does he think that quote means?
Anyhow, you can see why MacTavish has kept the Kid line together right from the start of camp. And you can appreciate why he's obsessing over the 2nd line of veterans. Putting some players in a "position to succeed", by definition, means that other poor bastards will be put into a "position to fail".
Horcoff can take half of that load (whether he or MacTavish wants him to or not, go into DET, for example, and it will be Z and Lidstron all night), and with Hemsky and Cole on his wings it's hard to imagine him not doing well. But it's how the other guys fare that has to be worrying the coaching staff.
by Vic Ferrari on Sep 22, 2008 11:00 AM MDT reply actions
As Stoll and Reasoner discovered last year.
I really was never a fan of putting all those kids together, feeling that it would be better to try and dilute the weaker players over the lineup, but the eggs in one basket strategy looked really, really good at the end of last season. As much as I've lacked confidence in that third line, I can really appreciate what MacTavish has done with it - no trials of untested youngsters in the middle, just the best non pvp players available and all bunched together. With Pisani as the most important player on that line.
Pisani's value to this team this season is just incredible.
by Jonathan Willis on Sep 22, 2008 11:53 AM MDT reply actions

by 






























