Comparisons - Red Wings/Oilers Scouting Staff

by Jonathan Willis on May 8, 2008 9:49 AM MDT

This is Pavel Datsyuk. Along with being a first-line NHL centre, an elite player on a team that constantly wins, he was a 6th round pick in 1998. Those kinds of players aren't supposed to be found in the 6th round, but Detroit constantly unearths these guys. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen... the list goes on.

Jimmy Devellano, a senior vice president (and former player) with the Wings, says this:
"Yeah, we've been a little lucky getting players where we've gotten them,"
but then he adds:
"How come we're lucky and how come other teams are never lucky in terms of late round picks?"

Clearly, because luck has nothing do with it. Here in Edmonton, we might tend to blame the scouting staff, especially the European section of it, for producing few memorable late rounders, or for producing few memorable Europeans at all. With this in mind, I decided to have a look at the Red Wings scouting staff and compare them with our own. The results probably shouldn't have surprised me, but they did, and they also changed the way I perceive our group.

This April 21st article details the breakdown of the Red Wings
Amateur Scouting Staff. A review shows the following allocation of
resources:

Assistant GM Jim Nill, a former Red Wing based in Detroit, has the
final say on all draft selections. In addition to personally viewing all
of the top-rated prospects in Europe and North America, he scouts
CCHA games.

Director of scouting Joe McDonnell is an ex-coach, ex-NHL'er, and
he's based out of Ontario. He scouts both the OHL and Ontario Jr.
A, in addition to viewing the top prospects and evaluating free
agent signings.

Hakan Andresson is the Director of European scouting, and he's
based in Sweden. In addition to scouting Sweden and Finland,
Andersson often makes the final call on late round picks.

In addition to these management types, Detroit has seven amateur
scouts, three full-time in Europe (Czech Republic, Finland, Russia),
three full-time in North America (B.C, Minnesota, New Hampshire),
and a part-time scout in BC.

Compare this to the Oilers' group, who I did a run-down on here.

The Oilers actually have a similar number of scouts, nine, but the
differences are telling. The Oilers have done fairly well with their
North American selections, but they have only two scouts for all
of Europe (as compared to four for the Red Wings), and it's fairly
obvious that the focus isn't the same.

As much as I've dumped on Kent Nilsson at this site,
I'm beginning to reevaluate that opinion. How is
Edmonton supposed to compete with a team like
Detroit when they only have half the staff?

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Comments

The fact that these players are all late round picks is alarming. If they were no brainers, any team would take them in the first round. I think Detroit's success a product of the development system and having good instincts on knowing who to roll the dice on.

Oilers have done a good job since 2001 and late round picks tend to emerge after about 5 years so I'm hoping more show up. Picking a player like Trunko is an evolution in our scouting staff. Comparing the staff to Detroit can get depressing (for any team) but being the best should be the goal and Detroit is hands down the best.

Either way, your bang on. Edmonton should invest more on European scouts (and NCAA scouting). We dont have the luxury of being a sought after FA market so in order to be elite, our drafting is going to have to be the reason.

by Sean on May 8, 2008 1:21 PM MDT reply actions

Edmonton should invest more on European scouts (and NCAA scouting)

I'm not sure that our NCAA scouting is deficient; it's been an area of strength traditionally for the Oilers. Vande Velde and Chorney would be two examples of up-and-coming prospects, but there's others.

by Jonathan Willis on May 8, 2008 1:48 PM MDT reply actions

Sorry by NCAA scouting I mean scouting NCAA for potential UFA players. Typically you draft NCAA players (ie Chorny, Vande Velde, Cogliano, Nash) before they enter school.

by Sean on May 8, 2008 3:07 PM MDT reply actions

I find comparisons like this frustrating, as an Oilers fan. In a salary cap environment, the place to compete is in non-salary cap channels, and scouting is clearly one of them. Why don't the Oilers just throw a bag of money at the Wings' scouting staff? Or hire more of their own staff, hopefully not named Nilsson?

Once Katz is fully ensconsed as the owner, hopefully we'll see more competing on non-salary fronts: better trainers, better facilities, better concierge services for the players, and yes, more and better-paid scouts. Everyone wants Sidney Crosby on their team, but why not hire the Crosby of scouts?

by Bohologo on May 8, 2008 9:31 PM MDT reply actions

Don't forget about GM Ken Holland. He was in attendance at the Junior World Championships in Czech Rep and then swung through Sweden on the way home (jan 5th to be exact) to check up on prospects like young phenom Dick Axelson http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=3778 and impressive young goalie Daniel Larsson http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=1284 (among others!).
When was the last time KLowe did something like that?
Great compare/contrast work Jonathan!

by Jamie on May 9, 2008 3:16 AM MDT reply actions

If you go to hitthepost.blogspot.net we're having a similar debate over there about the Red Wings scouting systems. Personally I tend to agree with Sean, I think it has a lot to do with the Detroit development system.

Having some money invested in their euro scouting system probably doesn't hurt either.

by Kyle on May 9, 2008 7:19 AM MDT reply actions

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Northwest Standings

	GP	W	L	OTL	PT
Vancouver Nucks Misconduct	54	34	15	5	73
Colorado Mile High Hockey	56	28	25	3	59
Minnesota Hockey Wilderness	54	25	21	8	58
Calgary Matchsticks and Gasoline	55	25	22	8	58
Edmonton The Copper & Blue	54	21	28	5	47

(updated 2.11.2012 at 6:02 AM MST)

22 - 28 - 5

Streak: Won 1

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@ Calgary Matchsticks and Gasoline	Tue 02/21	7:00 PM MST
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Last 5 Games

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Chicago Second City Hockey	Thu 02/02	W 8 - 4